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Kevint: Of course, neither will change their mind, but the discussion is very interesting, because if you sit outside the box you can see holes in all the arguments

BnaturAl: I dont ...

beleivers give god credit for creating everything.(usually only the good stuff, illogical again)

That would include man, if true yes?

therefore IF there is a god, he is also responsible all the shit that results from his creation.

Kevint: I understand where your coming from, but you have to let others have their say, it's not meant to be personal no one here is trying have a go at you, they are just voicing there opinion, sometimes its can be a very strong opinion, which strikes hard, even those who agree with the premiss draw in a deep breath,

Rest easy Aries, and take solace in the fact that the majority here in this thread would drop everything to come to your aid should that be required, and that is what is most important, not their belief.

BarrenPneuma: So Dahmer's mother and father sould have been tried and found as guilty as their son for his actions? Seems weak to me. If your own child killed someone or did anything that is akin to what humans have done in the name of religion (not God but the doctrine they are hoodwinked by) then you should suffer equally and be considered responsible?

Kevint: But thats the point, they did and they do, man has always had the choice, its how they reach the decision that needs to be questioned

gingerb: Another day of the unteachable preaching to the unreachable.....

Having no personal experience of a subject, does not qualify anyone to say it is not true or possible...

If it has not happened to you then all you can say about it, with any truth or validity, is that it has not happened to you........

What does anyone have to lose by walking a mile in the other man's moccassins once in a while???

I'm not seeing much compasson, empathy, love for fellow man, common decency or any other good values here, all the qualities that people purport to have with or without a God in their lives, from those who say you don't need religion to have them.......

shipoker58: I doubt it....preachers are all full of these stories. Ithey are contained in courses in college called homeletics. I have heard one story preached by four different preachers, telling of a "personal experience". I later found that same story in a book called ways to get your sermon off to a good start( or something to that effect)

Merwan: A teenage girl about 17 had gone to visit some friends one evening and time passed quickly as each shared their various experiences of the past year.

She ended up staying longer than planned, and had to walk home alone.
She wasn't afraid because it was a small town and she lived only a few
blocks away.
wow!!... is this a true story??

hairs standin at the back of my neck..

As she walked along under the tall elm trees, Diane asked God to keep
her safe from harm and danger.

When she reached the alley, which was a short cut to her house, she
decided to take it.

However, halfway down the alley she noticed a man standing at the end as though he were waiting for her.

She became uneasy and began to pray, asking for God's protection.

Instantly a comforting feeling of quietness and security wrapped round
her, she felt as though someone was walking with her.

When she reached the end of the alley, she walked right past the man
and arrived home safely.

The following day, she read in the newspaper that a young girl had been raped in the same alley just twenty minutes after she had been there.

Feeling overwhelmed by this tragedy and the fact that it could have
been her, she began to weep.

Thanking the Lord for her safety and to help this young woman, she
decided to go to the police station.

She felt she could recognize the man, so she told them her story.

The police asked her if she would be willing to look at a lineup to see
if she could identify him.

She agreed and immediately pointed out the man she had seen in the
alley the night before.

When the man was told he had been identified, he immediately broke down and confessed.

The officer thanked Diane for her bravery and asked if there was
anything they could do for her.

She asked if they would ask the man one question.

Diane was curious as to why he had not attacked her.

When the policeman asked him, he answered, "Because she wasn't alone. She had two tall men walking on either side of her."

Amazingly, whether you believe or not, you're never alone. Did you know that 98% of teenagers will not stand up for God?
Note: God is always there in your heart and loves you no matter
what.....and if you stand up 4 him he will stand up for you.

Kevint: My parents will have been married 68 years this Christmas Eve, they cannot understand how so many walk away from a marriage, cannot fathom out what it is that prevents those from talking, working out their problems and getting back to just being happy with each other, oh my parents fight, argue, discuss (loudly) but they always make up, they find the middle ground, or agree to disagree. they know each other better than they know themselves, they still give one another "treats", little things that they know will draw a smile.

That is what I want, I know its possible, I know its reality, I know I shall find it, I just don't know when

Aries01: I know so many great couples that make you think yes.. it is possible and so worth it... in fact I was chatting to one of my Church friends the other day and her whole face lights up when she talk about him..she still fancies him to bits and their relationship is soo fresh.. and she met him when she was 15... 30 years ago, he has been the one and only man she has ever been with.. they have an amazing family and you can still feel the 'electricity'...

BarrenPneuma: So the world has to suffer for the cowardice of men? And what about what you want? Sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns or at least wave a flag (pretty sure the red thing has been debunked so any colour should suffice).
At least your comment about the hordes of unsuitable men tells me that you are at least seekig in some offhanded manner, so there yet remains hope.

Kevint: Yes exactly, your are so right, we as a society seem to have forgotten that it takes both partners to work at a relationship, to keep it fresh and stimulating. this attitude of "The grass is greener elsewhere" and that its so easy to walk away from what was a committed relationship, has undermined our ability to strengthen a relationship, there are still cultures that believe in in the value of marriage, they seen on the face of it to live reasonable lives and produce happy well balanced children.

Maybe I am naive, but I would rather have a loving faithful and caring relationship in which to grow old together, than play the field, always looking for that which is never really there, and grow old alone.

Karma3: Concentrate on learning to CLICK with your camera and stop fretting about not CLICKING with the folks in your class - they are just in transit and will walk out of your life after 9 months. So go on, you can do it!! Grind your teeth and grin coz some of them may have real good ideas that you could learn from.

BarrenPneuma: Certainly in nature there are very few creatures that cannot within a very short span of time fend virtually for themselves, yet a human child left unattended or sequestered from its parents has little if any possibility of survival, and it seems that as time marches on in tune to 'civilization' the time frame has indeed grown longer for survival and even moreso for development and opportunity to become adept at life itself.

BarrenPneuma: What percentage of creatures with a lifespan nearing, equalling or surpassing that of humans, and also a comparable maturation cycle are not monogamous? I am curious if anyone knows some facts bearing on this issue.
Perhaps monogamy is a prerequsite for such beings? With a shorter lifespan and thus increased penchant for evolutionary adaptation it is necessary to manage one's genetics to overcome the environment's influences and ensure survival. But when the resource costs of raising young that require greater amounts of development is an issue it indeed seems more likely to me at least that the two parents share in this responsibility equally.

BarrenPneuma: And this reasoning of yours baffles me as to why you are not taken? A real woman with so much to offer. Must be the lack of reciprocation or sheer stupidity on behalf of men.