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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 9:12 PM CST
Taken out of above texts-

"Therefore, in order for most of today's Christians to escape physical death, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel must perish, soon. This is the grim prophetic trade-off that fundamentalists rarely discuss publicly, but which is the central motivation in the movement's political support for the State of Israel."


2/3 of Isreal, with a present pop of about 7.6 million, means that 5.5 million jews will die, all so that christains can feel like they are the annointed ones... the chosen ones.

barfing

I know the bible is a faery tale, but there are people, evangelists chumming the waters, feeding the frenzy. Even if you're not personally a part of the killing, the fact that you would indulge a "cult" that is ok with the genocide of the jews that benefits you, even in your imaganative minds, is deplorable. IT'S NAZI SUPREMIST AGENDA!!!!! (aka right wing christains)


barfing


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 9:03 PM CST
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north188.html

Should anything happen to remove Israel from the Middle East during the lifetimes of these people, then the expected Great Tribulation will have to be postponed, probably for centuries, until another State of Israel is established. The appearance of the State of Israel in 1948 would then turn out to have been an eschatologically irrelevant political event.

Should Israel ever be "pushed into the sea," these people will have to face what the rest of us began facing early in life: the prospect of our statistically inescapable physical death.... This belief in death-free living is the rarely stated psychological motivation behind American fundamentalism's unwavering support of the State of Israel.

... the Church Age will end with the Rapture of living saints into heaven. The millennial age, which will be marked by Christ's bodily presence, will not be a church age, but will be a restored Davidic kingdom. It will even involve the restoration of the Temple sacrifices – as memorials, however, not as redemptive sacrifices. As Scofield writes in one of his notes, "Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross. . . ." (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 890n).

TIMING THE GREAT ESCAPE

According to Scofield's note to I Corinthians 15:52, the first resurrection of the dead will accompany the death-free translation of living Christians into their eternal condition. He writes:

The "first resurrection," that "unto life," will occur at the second coming of Christ (I Cor. 15. 23), the saints of the O.T. and church ages meeting Him in the air. . . . The bodies of living believers will, at the same time, be instantly changed (I Cor. 15. 52–53; Phil. 3. 20–21). This "change" of the living, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ, is called "the redemption of the body" (Rom. 8. 23; Eph. 1. 13, 14).

The crucial question is this: When will this event take place? It will take place before the beginning of the Great Tribulation, which will last three and a half years. In his note to Revelation 7:14, Scofield writes regarding the duration of the Great Tribulation, . . .

The great tribulation is immediately followed by the return of Christ in glory, and all the events associated therewith (

But how long before the 42-month Great Tribulation begins will the invisible second coming take place, the one that allows Christians to avoid death and the grave? Exactly 42 months. This is because this coming dispensation, according to dispensationalists, is the fulfillment of the prophecy of the seventieth week of Daniel (Dan. 9:24), a week of seven years. Scofield's note says:

When the Church-age will end, and the seventieth week begin, is nowhere revealed. Its duration can be but seven years. (

Ever since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, fundamentalists have lost their reticence in dating the end of the Church Age. They have rejoiced in the presumably fast-approaching fulfillment of Bible prophecy during which, in Scofield's words, "the people of God who will have returned to Palestine in unbelief." Why such rejoicing? Because, if a Christian can make it to the day, exactly three and a half years before this fulfillment takes place, he will not suffer death.

This is why fundamentalists send money to Jewish organizations that bring Russian Jews to the State of Israel. They want to speed up the process. One of these programs, "On Wings of Eagles," is sponsored by Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein's International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. In 2002, he joined with Ralph Reed, the former political technician for Pat Robertson's grass-roots political training organization, Christian Coalition, to create Stand for Israel. Reed today is Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party.




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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 9:02 PM CST
Next and this is creepy;

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north188.html

"BETTER THEM THAN US!"

What is rarely discussed publicly by Jews or fundamentalists is the fundamentalists' view of the looming cost to Israelis for their return to Palestine. Fundamentalists believe that the Great Tribulation will wipe out two-thirds of the Jews in Israel. Hence, to encourage their return to the State of Israel is to encourage their destruction.

John Walvoord, who died in 2002, served for three decades as the president of Dallas Theological Seminary, the largest and best-known dispensational seminary (founded, 1924). He was the author of numerous books, both academic and popular, on dispensational prophecy. He taught Hal Lindsey, who attended Dallas Seminary. Here is his assessment of the future of Israelis.

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried" (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah's prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah. (John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, [1962] 1988], p. 108.

Nothing will be done by Christians to save Israel's Jews from this disaster, for all of the Christians will have been removed from this world three and a half years prior to the beginning of this 42-month period of tribulation. The only Christians present at that time will be recent converts to the faith, who had been left behind as non-believers at the time of the Rapture.

Therefore, in order for most of today's Christians to escape physical death, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel must perish, soon. This is the grim prophetic trade-off that fundamentalists rarely discuss publicly, but which is the central motivation in the movement's political support for the State of Israel.

It should be clear why they believe that Israel must be defended at all costs by the West. If Israel were removed militarily from history prior to the Rapture, then the strongest case for Christians' imminent escape from death would have to be abandoned. This would mean the indefinite delay of the Rapture. The fundamentalist movement thrives on the doctrine of the imminent Rapture, not the indefinitely postponed Rapture.

Every time you hear the phrase, "Jesus is coming back soon," you should mentally add, "and two-thirds of the Jews of Israel will be dead in `soon plus 84 months.'" Fundamentalists really do believe that they probably will not die physically, but to secure this faith prophetically, they must accept the doctrine of an inevitable future holocaust....




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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 9:01 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:

Oh BnaturAl, if you only knew what the bible really said.
Please, by all means, tell us where the bible tell us to murder... and all that other stuff. "Complicit" (please check the defintion)

I guess this is where you change the subject or claim you already did in an earlier post. Please use God's instructions to Israel or it's king as an example, I have no problem teaching you what the bible says (again).


we'll see who si ignoring their comlicit acceptance of that "christian ideal"

http://thereitis.org/displayarticle255.html

Evangelicals Shape U.S. Foreign Policy

The vast majority of Jews desperately want to avoid a full-scale conflagration between Israel and the Arab world. Dispensationalists don't. In the dispensationalist narrative, Christians will be raptured to heaven before all the fighting between Jews and Muslims starts. Everyone left will face mass death and destruction... Thus evangelical Christians' support for policies like the permanent takeover the West Bank and Gaza and even, in some cases, the expulsion of Palestinians into Jordan, should be understood in the context of a worldview in which world war is inevitable.....

Dispensationalist Christians believe that this is all in the service of establishing the reign of Christ on earth. Yet while they chase this fantasy, they're content to put real lives -- Jewish lives -- on the line. "It doesn't make me feel any better when they tell me to keep the whole West Bank when I don't think that's for the benefit of Israel politically," says [Israeli journalist] Gorenberg. "When somebody's hope for where Israeli policy will lead is Armageddon, clearly they're going to be judging things differently."

For now, as Jews and evangelicals work together, those differences might not matter. Yet as American government support of the mujahedin shows, realpolitik partnerships against metaphysical evil can turn rancid. When people believe their politics are endorsed by God, today's ally can be tomorrow's Satan.
.

Antichrist politics
May 24, 2002 | Salon.com

For many fervent Christians, support for Israel has less to do with Ariel Sharon than preparing for Armageddon.

by Michelle Goldberg

From the Senate floor, Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., preached what was essentially a sermon about Israel last December. "The Bible says that Abram [Abraham] removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar before the Lord," he said. "Hebron is in the West Bank. It is at this place where God appeared to Abram and said, 'I am giving you this land' ... This is not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether or not the word of God is true."

As Inhofe's speech suggested, for elements of the Christian right, pro-Israel fervor has ascended to the realm of the sacred. Christian leaders Ralph Reed and Gary Bauer both say that their support of Israel -- and Israeli expansionism -- is partly rooted in biblical injunction. Bauer says, "There are a variety of Old Testament scriptures in which God is saying to Abraham that the people of Israel will occupy all the land between the sea and the river," which he says means the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. "There's a belief that this is covenant land," he adds....


http://thereitis.org/displayarticle255.html





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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 6:43 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
No, I admitted the power mongers were sucking lemmings. By the way, what is a lemming?The bible can be used for evil. Not because it is evil, but because evil men use it as such. An airplane is not evil. It has brought a lot of good to our world. It has united the world as much as any invention in human history. And yet it has been used for evil. The terrorist used airplanes on 911, but I don't hear people saying the planes themselves were evil. Hitler used planes in his "Blitzkrieg", but I think most would say it was the pilots doing the evil not the planes. But you are saying that when men hold up the bible and do all sorts of evil, it is the bible, not the man, who is evil. I am not sure of your logic there. You say they read that God called for acts of violence in the bible, but the bible is a record of what God called for at a particular moment in time, for a particular situation. No where in the bible does God instruct the reader to go and do likewise. If someone misunderstands that, it is the misunderstanding that is wrong, not the bible. If you read it wrong, and someone dies as a result, is that the fault of the bible? If someone drives through a red light and kills an innocent person, is the car they were driving wrong, or was it the driver? If I handle a gun improperly, and someone dies in the process, then I am at fault, not the gun. I do not know how else to put it. Like the gun, car, and airplane, the bible was not created for evil. And a person using it as such does not prove anything.

(If you want to bring the law not passing away argument out again, I will overcome it just as I have done in past threads. Just let me know.)



I get it, genocide, pedophelia, murder, inquisitions, supremacy and the prophecied death of another 4.2 millions jews is ok with you. Ya it is because you get to be the children of the One god when all the killing is done.. self righteous bigotry! supremist nazis are like that very mad Hilter indeed. Justify it how you want. It is sick shit and sad that you continue to spread it... barfing


very mad


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 6:36 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
BnaturAl, your not saying

that knowledge makes you smart ?

Are you trying to say that you have never met a person

who knew a lot, but wasn't too smart?????


ring around the rosie again... knowledge makes you smart, But knew (aka knowledge) a lot doesnt make you smart.?

circular, you know what.

knowledge makes you knowledgeable, plain and simple.

Circular logic only works on right brained people with brains working on the other side of the left because that's where it is. (betting you actually understood that. A left brained person would be going ... wtf?)

In response to:

It is funny what you said about Christianity being against knowledge, TRUTHFUL KNOWLEDGE but it only demonstrates how almost nothing you know about the subject. On the topic of real Christianity you know very little, (Bullshyte and you know it ) but on the topic of Anti-Christianity you know a lot. That explains a lot. Now on your assertion of Christianity being against knowledge TRUTHFUL KNOWLEDGE , let us see that the bible says about the subject.


The bible, evangelists, cultists, all say not to stray , keep the faith no matter what truth presents itself. Built in psychobabble to keep lemmings in the fold. Its cultism written by power mongers using right brained psychological techniques. That is also what they use to attempt to produce proof of their make believe characters and what you buy into.



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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 5:54 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
I do agree with you as far as the bible being used by "power mongers sucking in lemmings". I just wish you did not see me that way. That is all.


No, its not all. You want me to love christianity, the pox that you want to keep spreading, the pox you admit is sucking in lemmings for their purposes, not any loving god's purpose.

In response to:

I am not a power monger. I do not want anyone dead. I try not to whine. We have covered the guilt trip thing (if they are guilty, then why not the guilt trip? ).

I very much value you and some of your posts. I hate to see you painted in an ill light.


what light is that Mike? The light you already posted attempting to paint me as the bad guy. That light? Seems to me you dont hate doing that at all, because you did it! When I hate something I don't go and willflullly do it, I speak out against it.
In response to:

I just believe.

I like my stories better than your stories. I have received life from what I believe, and I hope and pray for the same to happen to everyone. Especially you. I know that might offend you, but I would offend you a millions times if it meant saving your soul.


Your god (that god) has no right being in MY life Mike, especially a religious god that supports death and destruction. Please do not be so presumptious, not to mention self righteous, that such a god is anything I would need. My soul is fine. How dare you assume, no presume! that I need your help.

In response to:

No matter where you are or what you have done, Jesus will save you. All you have to do is ask.


What don't you get about the truth? There is no jesus, none of the bible characters are proveable. Constantine created the bible and imposed it on the jews and the roman empire. HellBoy can save me too. How would you feel if I started praying to him for you? youre laughing, smiling now... because you know Hellboy's make believe ....


just like christ.


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 5:11 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
Did BnaturAl say that we colour his posts? I find them quite colorful on their own. Sometimes you could call them a work of art.
This is one of my favorites: Please keep up the color BnaturAl. I do not know what I would do without you in my threads.


btw Mike ... all that you posted is about christianity and what it is. I stand by it , no matter how you try to place it out of context, no matter how you try to make it personal. Whine if you like, Play guilt trips, even post a sympathy thread .. christianity is hell on wheels ...the bible is the instrument of power mongers sucking in lemmings. thumbs down


you can repost that too if you like.





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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 5:03 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
Did BnaturAl say that we colour his posts? I find them quite colorful on their own. Sometimes you could call them a work of art.
This is one of my favorites: Please keep up the color BnaturAl. I do not know what I would do without you in my threads.



truth. descriptive truth. thumbs up


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:44 PM CST
SummerTimeXOXO wrote:
well hey.... out of all comments the one that included the word SHIT seemed to interest you the most so........ I'm just thinking you must like it!!!!


I notice when gramma farts too, doesn't mean I hang around for the dispersal.. grin D'oh!


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:38 PM CST
SummerTimeXOXO wrote:
Well maybe if I bring up another comment with the word SHIT in it... maybe it will bring a smile on your face


eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek troll

I'll pass thanks ... hole


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:27 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
BnaturAl, your not saying that knowledge makes you smart are you? Are you trying to say that you have never met a person who knew a lot, but wasn't too smart?

;


try to follow the posts mike, thats not what I said> the posts are in chronilogical order, reading them independantly without their referenced posts will lead you to assume wrongly. smoking


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:24 PM CST
BnaturAl wrote:
ya well you're just better than me ... its the christian way of course.

decency would be the end of christianity and the mockery it has made of what "might" be a god. slander shmander, where's that at ....(I forget you dont need proof do you) is there no end to the false accusations from you people when you want to be the victim?

Abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, all replace their addiction with a new addiction, its called make believe gods and christianity .... proof is in society, its more incidious than any drug, kills more people, commits and supports pedophelia, genocide and ,much more .... slander shmander ... truth is not slander.

youre not the victim, the victims are people who suffer bevause of christian supremist BS. get real.

accuse away, pretend youre righteous
.


and ... what should pop up, but a victim thread rolling eyes


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:10 PM CST
SummerTimeXOXO wrote:
LMAO A thing for poo? No no not me but my husband does have a thing for my booty although shit is NEVER EVER involved


now you're just trying to cheer me up laugh


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:09 PM CST
B_S1965 wrote:
Well sometimes it could be difficult to let go after the anger is over.



YA... me thinks cheating is the ultimate slap in the face ... self respect would demand it end .. for me anyway. smoking


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 4:07 PM CST
BarrenPneuma wrote:
Couching disdain in twisted humour. Following a person or thought about in the forums and defrauding it with ridicule. Debasing ideologies that are core to people’s beliefs. Attributing characteristics to persons through association with a perceived group or opinion. Shallow discourse, which attempts to provoke antagonism between positions.
There are so many ways that these malicious self-haters deem worthy to denigrate peace and harmony. They are by no means encouraged to change their own opinions but the golden rule of having nothing nice to say and saying nothing does not even apply to such all-consuming reprobation.
These forums are a mixed environment and it seems as though some are here for nothing more than schoolyard bullying of anyone who in the slightest way seems happy or content, curious or inquisitive. Faith and spirituality are keys to many people’s lives yet this threatens the security of those without, far too often. Agree to disagree and make yourself a better person by trying to play fair.
What is there to gain from misery? Why share it with others who do not seek it?
Respect is a two-way street and to expect it, one first has to give it.
I apologize to any to whom I have offended in any way shape or form but the days events have tasked my spirit with the flow of condescending vitriol that spews forth to destroy colour and life from this place.
I am sorry it was never my intention as can be seen by reading any portion of my posts previous to this time. I withdraw from responding to any solicitor of hatred from this day forth. I intend to ignore those belligerents with nothing more than an agenda for patronizing those they feel beneath them. I will fail at times but I will try to the best of my ability.
I am most sorry for falling victim to the delusional virus that drew me into such a worthless shamble. It is my own failing and I will attempt to correct it with great effort on my own part.

God Bless,
~ Mark


comfort


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 3:58 PM CST
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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 3:56 PM CST
B_S1965 wrote:
Cheat on me once it's your fault,cheat on me twice it's my fault...


I'm inclined to go with that on most behavioral issues ... depending on circumstances... chances should be available, just not sure that the "cheat" thing would be one I would consider chanceable. Once was a chance she took so .... bu'bye...


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 3:53 PM CST
SummerTimeXOXO wrote:
Oh you little smart ass....


rolling eyes laugh thats close to where that stuff comes from ... I think you might have a thing for pooo... rolling on the floor laughing







dancing banana sticking out tongue lips


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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Nov 17, 2008, 3:52 PM CST
rasgumby wrote:
No CS censorship.... rule #3.Let's keep the threads positive. If you don't like what someone is saying in a thread, stay out of the thread.
there are hundreds of other threads that you are more than welcome to visit, why stay here just to constantly attack it?
Or better yet..
Why do you attack all religious threads that come up.
Is that your only purpose for being here?


information is neither positive nor negative .. the assumption and desire to "colour" my posts as either is entirely yours and that desire is no doubt prejudiced.


read the bold type and practice what you are trying to enforce on others rolling eyes


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