eastbayray Forum Posts

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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 3:34 PM CST
Aries01 wrote:
Hi... there has been a lot of threads here recently which have had the effect of blurring the line between God and Religion.. two different things... Religion is manmade.. and most obviously flawed to its core.. God (for those who believe, including myself) is above and beyond all that...

What are ur views?


There was once this girl, Aries, and when she was seven her mother entrusted her with the keys to her car - in the way of a psychological calmative, i believe . . . and she SO wanted to live up to the responsibility she had been given, to BE responsible, and above all to do so because it was her MAMMY; but - poor girl - she lost them in the field behind the house where she was horsing around, as it were, with sofa cushions - the keys forgotten. They were lost and chaos ensued: A search for these . . . LOST keys, which SHE had lost. And the distraught little girl ran down the road in her pyjamas (not the pink one’s with the little tiger on) and she lay in the grass in a field staring up at the sky and apologising to God . . .

And the apology was accepted. laugh

Sometimes God can’t help doing what He KNOWS He ought not to…

Yes, this God has nothing to do with Religion.

Religion in all its manifestations is a misrepresentation of God - as only it can be.

But a God there IS.

No further proof is needed beyond what is immediately in front of you at any given moment. It is the logically coherent miracle of naked existence of which we are a part. It’s called Life. And this is just its beginning . . .




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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:53 PM CST
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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:48 PM CST
BnaturAl wrote:
Theory can 'become' verified Mike. Einstein says the universe is moving outward at a pace faster than the speed of light. I accept the possibility but only the possibility. Will it someday be verified? also possible.
"Hangs the earth on nothing"? Even space has some mass, certainly doesn't qualify as 'nothing', not to mention forces of gravity and such. So part of the theory fails under scrutiny Mike. Theory is like that. some works, some doesn't.Shakepsear captures people's hearts Mike, (hell Die Hard captured my heart)people use that as well. Why? to capture people's emotions. Why would they do that? That is the real question. For control? is my theory.


indeed . . . devil grin


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:46 PM CST
Aries01 wrote:
Hiya Ray... long time no see


wave Hi Aries - that’s a pretty new picture of you. I see Riya is back! And Détente (or is it an impostor?)wave


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:31 PM CST
BnaturAl wrote:
Ray ... ? s'tat u?


T’is indeed the one and only demonic me.devil You've become quite the voice, old boy. I’ve been busy taking advanced driving lessons and studying police Roadcraft theory, reading the sonnets of Elizabeth Barrette Browning before bed time and chasing some skirt on the side.

It flees, you chase it.wine




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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:17 PM CST
trish123 wrote:
Right Ray - which version?


The Satanic one . . .

It's actually less satanic than the original .. .


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:11 PM CST
MikeHD wrote:
I walked right into that one LOL

ok,

Car is an automobile, man uses automobile, therefore man is car?

There, get around that one


All wood that burns, combusts, therefore all that combusts and burns, is wood.dancing banana


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 18, 2008, 2:09 PM CST
That God exists has always been, to me, a matter common sense.


wave professor scold


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 11:22 AM CST
Hugz_n_Kissez wrote:
I posted my non-intellectual thoughts anyway!!!!!!!!


laugh laugh

Thanks!


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 11:18 AM CST
girlnextdormouse wrote:
At this point in my life, this topic hits too close to home for me to give any opinion whatsoever, but I did want to say this:

Ray,
If you are writing a paper, the first thing you may want to consider, is coming up with a clear and precise definition that you are using for euthanasia.

Is it only physician assisted death?
Does it include “allowing nature to take it’s course” by simply choosing not to have clinical and physician intervention at all?
You can’t touch on euthanasia without bringing up the topic of hospice either. Most hospice entails dying in one’s home due to giving up life sustaining treatments. Hospice workers are often social workers, so do they qualify in your definition of physician intervention?
When you speak of assisted suicide or euthanasia, would this include family members who are willing to stand by and let a disease take it’s course on a person without medical treatment?
If so, then you are also getting into legal issues of neglect if the dying person happens to be a legal dependant. For instance, someone's 6 year old child dying of cancer.
Does it include family/friends who progressively increase pain medication at a faster rate than tolerance is built, over a period of time administered to a dying family member? In the end, if the cause of death ended up being an overdose instead of the terminal illness, is this euthanasia?
Would it include family members who are bystanders and hold the hand of a family member while they take their own life via an overdose? Would that qualify as assisted suicide?
These are important questions to ask when defining not only what euthanasia is, but also the legality of it. Hospice in America is perfectly legal, but the same actions taken in a hospital by doctors could very well have them imprisoned.

As a reader of your words, I'm still unclear on your distinction between terms.
Semantics can be a pain, but they are precisely what law is written upon. The very elements of a crime are the semantics in which the law is written.
The most important part of writing academia (as I’m sure you know) is having a clear and concise point. You can’t do that until you have clear and concise definitions for the words that make your point.
Good luck on your mission.
(And grow back that nice looking facial hair.)


I understand the terminology, and the semantics are the 'moral dilemmas' to which I have alluded but not gone into.

Passive euthanasia, non-aggressive euthanasia, aggressive euthanasia etc:

Physician assisted = euthanasia (meaning assisted by a qualified professional)

The withdrawal of medication/treatment is known as passive-euthanasia

The over-dosing (say with morphine) non-aggressive [double effect priciple].

The administration of lethal substances = aggressive euthanasia.

I know the terminology (and far more than the above), but using it will be lost on the many without a big tiresome explanation.

Thanks for your advice (clever lady) wine


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 11:09 AM CST
trish123 wrote:
Its all just a part of the great rethink imo - euthanasia or suicide, they are both about prematurely ending life - and against the word of God - we are meant to suffer till the bitter end to please this God.

Well, count me out on that one - who's life is it, who's decision is it - mine thats who's.

I dont envision going up to the palace in the sky anyway. If it was such a merciful God awaiting your arrival surely he wouldnt want to see your suffering prolonged.


This is one of those things we have to stand behind, you know, Trish?

I was researching the argument for and against Euthanasia:

Almost half of the points used against euthanasia rest on religious/dogmatic grounds, and one even points out the Hippocratic Oath laugh

Pathetic!

There are moral dilemmas that deserve individual consideration in individual cases, but they should not be used against Euthanasia on the whole but for or against those individual cases!

I have spoken. professor


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 11:03 AM CST
trish123 wrote:
Its all just a part of the great rethink imo - euthanasia or suicide, they are both about prematurely ending life - and against the word of God - we are meant to suffer till the bitter end to please this God.

Well, count me out on that one - who's life is it, who's decision is it - mine thats who's.

I dont envision going up to the palace in the sky anyway. If it was such a merciful God awaiting your arrival surely he wouldnt want to see your suffering prolonged.


I knew you would be behind reason, Trish.

And your presence here is like a breath of fresh air among these breathers of stale air!!! professor

One hopes the intense suffering of their own untimely deaths will make them realise how wrong they are, but moreover make their own loved ones realise, that euithanasia is a civil human right!


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:58 AM CST
fireliter wrote:
I can see how if we could persuade the medical professionals to sacrifice profit from keeping "the dead alive" they should naturally insist that Euthanasia be under strict supervision of the medical professional.

Hell we talking alot of lost revenue for them (medical professional)when it is legalized.

thus the terminology is being put into place, Euthanasia/ mercy killing/ assisted suicide.

I've no doubt it will come to pass. how many different ways exist to mercifully end a life?? I'm sure even more will be invented once legalized. new profession on the horizon Euthanasia specialist MD of Euthanasia.


You're thinking about money instead of about people, my friend. And the living hell they can go through while being denied the right to end their own life or have it clinically ended.

The reason we can't allow assisted-suicide is for the same reason we don't have home abortions and births, the whole point of euthanasia is to make it as quick, painless, efficiant and peaceful as possible.

By your logic, women should give birth in their own homes because the hospitals are just out to get their money . . .

And watch how many children would die, become ill, sick etc . . .



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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:50 AM CST
Conrad73 wrote:
As in the Movie "Soylent Green"?
Told you before,Ray,you're on a Slippery Slope with those German "Philosophers".


I haven't seen this movie.

No, my friend, you people are the ones on the slippery slopes. It isn't until YOU are lying there with cancer eating away at your liver until you consider your right to euthanasia, to 'well-death' - and have to live for a week or two at most in utter blinding agony begging for death before you die.

We have people dragged out of car-wreckages with mangled legs and arms and faces and a third degree burn all over the body and instead of being put down like even a dog would be if it was so mangled beyond return, they are resuscitated and kept alive on support machines and live with no eyelids and fingers and legs and genitals . . .

Somewhere we HAVE to draw the line.

Watch a little less TV and look at the real issues at hand here; better yet old boy . . .

Consider yourSELF in these positions . . . would YOU want to live?

Like a great German philosopher once said 'Compassion is the basis of morality'



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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:36 AM CST
roxette25 wrote:
I agree with you on the euthanasia issue - if the circumstances are right. If the person agrees (if possible) or has stated this earlier.
I lost my father to cancer a couple of years ago. It was the hardest thing to go through. Everything slowly shutting down as the family has to watch this for months and months. The only thing he didn't lose was his mind so he was fully aware of everything and how terrible it was for him and the rest of us. He stated many times that this was not how things should be and even asked my brother to help him end it. Of course nothing any of us could do but wait. Very agonizing.
So write your paper, and perhaps send it on to someone who can change things - we can't change anything most likely but it never hurts to try. I have considered writing letters myself to my local politicians but so far have not done this.
The assited suicide thing is simply what we are forced to do because there are no other alternatives. I don't necessarily agree with it but if I had had the courage I would have helped my father.
Good luck with your paper.


Thank you Roxette, and don't worry

We can change EVERYTHING boxing


I once spoke to a woman who is ex-British intelligence and she told me about how her father begged her to end his life because he was in such agony from the liver cancer he had; she couldn't, didn't, and he lived for nine more days in agony and died.

Don't worry, Roxanne: NEVER AGAIN!

I will not see the one's I love die in agony or live utterly incapacitated lives against their will.

Euthanasia WILL be a thing of the future.

And our loved ones WILL depart this world peacefully . . .



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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:27 AM CST
rwantin wrote:
I am personally opposed to any form of involuntary euthanasia - it strikes me as impossible to assign that responsibility to a third party.

I have seen people die long, slow, lingering deaths, so if it was their wish to circumvent it, I have no issues with that. The line between assisted suicide and voluntary euthanasia seems a bit vague to me. What is the difference? I am sure there are, I just can't finger it.

I've seen a lot of views on this - I once lived in the same city of one Dr. Jack Kevorkian...


Euthanasia is clinical and physician assisted death, whereas assisted-suicide is, simply put, me helping you commit suicide say, by helping you to put a hosepipe from your exhaust into the car window and holding it there while you wind the window up. wine


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:23 AM CST
HJFinAZ wrote:
So, what is wrong with it? Is it not already used in the prison systems?

As to assisted suicide, why not? Hospitalas rack up millions a year keeping dead people alive. Hence, a DNR on my records..

My "opinion"...


Sorry, maybe you misunderstand the terminology. Assisted-suicide is not medically supervised like Euthanasia. If I help you to kill yourself that is assisted-suicide and not Euthanasia.

It has moral dilemmas attached to it that are politically very problematic. It has only been carried out where euthanasia was not legal and out of mercy. Many have stood on trial for murder.

If Euthanasia were legal, I would certainly not let assisted-suicide be legal. The whole point is to make suicide as humane as possible.

A peaceful departure from the world . . . wine


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:09 AM CST
Hugz_n_Kissez wrote:
I'm not intellectual enough....


That I do not doubt . . .


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:07 AM CST
Is this issue to challenging and intellectual for you people, or something?professor rolling eyes mumbling


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EastbayRay
Limassol, Limassol Cyprus
Posted: Feb 3, 2008, 10:05 AM CST
Hugz_n_Kissez wrote:
Does she have a brother?????


Make yourself useful for a change and post your opinion in my thread on euthanasia.professor scold


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