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Just wondering where our sense of "justice" and our "morals" may have originated....

Any thoughts on this?

Was it from the whitehouse

I seriously doubt it....alot of things have originated in the Whitehouse....morals is not one of them i'm sure....

Probably just different generations and countries of people that had their own beliefs from their culture or stuff like that

I was unable to think of any morals not based on theological concepts.

I am sure it was not "justice" that originated there also..

For the most part I think you're probably right...however, there had to be some societal structure to set moral codes before then. I tend to think our current moral codes are based on theological concepts.

I was also thinking about that....based on my "what is atheism" thread...I'm wondering if the bible is fiction....then so are the 10 commandments....but then where did our "morals" for living originate if not from those commandments?

Anyone?

The Bible summed it up, but I guess through trial and error, people came to certain conlusions about right and wrong in a "civilized" society. Those lines between right and wrong have been blurred recently, but I think deep down most people agree on a basic moral code.

35,000 BC: Cro-Magnons or modern humans emerge in east Africa; they possess contemporary capacities for thought, emotion, creativity, desire, fantasy, motivation, psychology, spirituality, etc.; the minds, hearts, and souls of these intensely individualistic but also highly social creatures are fully in place; as these sentient beings approach adolescence they quickly learn in depth -- thru experience and education -- the two fundamental universal virtues: (1) planning for the long term personally and (2) cooperating socially

8000 BC: the Agricultural Revolution forces self-discipline and moral sophistication upward; these new farmers -- in order to survive and thrive -- are required to be less irascible, unpredictable, out-of-control, and animal-like in their behavior; and as proto-rancher-farmers domesticate their animal and plant food supplies, they become more 'domesticated' themselves; the new personal moral codes they're forced to adopt make them considerably less like traditional tribalist hunter-gatherers -- who basically lived like wolves and chimpanzees, and didn't need nearly as many moral skills

3500 BC: the stunning, wondrous Governmental Revolution and advent of civilization and sophisticated culture in Mesopotamia and Egypt forces the individual to even more (1) plan for the future and (2) be socially friendly/cooperative; the newly-invented city-state forces people to live together in unprecedented closeness with their fellow man as old-style natural freedom and privacy become both much harder to get and more valuable to have; this vast expansion of socio-economic interactivity puts an unprecedented premium on social ethics; people handle this more or less badly, as was probably inevitable; this inept socialization and social morality is manifested thruout the various emerging cultures and societies; it's particularly seen in their rather tyrannical government and the interwoven freshly-created institution of polytheism; the cities of this period are actually rather rich in friends, money, and high culture -- but generally hard on individualism, originality, and eccentricity, all of which end up getting somewhat squashed; de facto social eugenics and the domestication/taming of man increases radically in the city

500 BC: the Rational Revolution takes place -- miraculously -- simultaneously in the fundamentally unconnected worlds of China, India, Persia, Judea, and Greece; a brand new sophistication and consistency in thought inaugurates the world's first Age of Reason -- altho' full rationality doesn't actually form and triumph except in Greece; there, true full philosophy and morality are born

250 BC: there is a surprising and depressing dialectic reaction against reason and philosophy across almost the whole Old World; people experiment with, and turn to, the nemesis and antithesis of rationality and philosophy: newly-invented pure irrationality and religion; this is especially true in Greece, as was probably natural and ineluctable; but world culture and morality suffer immensely; people become fixated on, or even obsessed with, excessively long-term personal enjoyment and social over-cooperation; neither goal is much achieved; it gets to the point where the individual -- the meaning and purpose of the universe -- gets very little pleasure or happiness short or long term; the man in the city street focuses on interpersonal cooperation to the point of self-sacrifice and self-immolation; the Sacred Self virtually abandons all-important personal morality in order to serve his monolithic bureaucratic Society -- an abstract institution and entity which doesn't much even exist; the newly-invented "god" is so evil he practically stands ethics on its head; morality is so perverted, subverted, and tortured by the hyper-evil of religion that it actually becomes the individual's enemy (a shocking situation which still obtains to this day); the holy Self and his Society suffer horrifically; poorly defined and explained "selfishness" and "greed" become highly condemned while bottom-feeding religiosos promote the ambiguous concepts and ideals of "duty" and "obligation"; these last two get interpreted almost exclusively as social concepts and become two new hateful words and enemies of the individual and his society

500-750 AD: religion and the judeo-christiano-islamic ethic have sadly triumphed; true philosophy and morality lie crushed

500-1500: social duties and obligations -- even including counter-productive charity -- continue to dog and torture the individual and society in Europe; fortunately, philosophical and ethical hypocrisy and corruption reign in both government and religion; thus, neither the Sacred Self nor his derivative society perish during this seemingly endless monstrous Dark Age

1300-1500: reason returns to Italy; the false god and anti-philosophy of religion goes into steep decline; individualism and humanism emerge vigorously, while the loathsome god-based morality (sic) of altruism retreats; the selfish virtues of classic Greek "excellence" and classic Roman "manly power" reascend strongly

1500-1700: more of the same, but this time much further, and thruout the whole of Europe

1700-1800: the Enlightenment and new Age of Reason take place culturally, philosophically, and morally; the value of the individual, individualism, and individual happiness are somewhat realized and reach their historic zenith; self-centered and rational ethics see to it that human society and culture are never higher, sweeter, or better

1800-1900: immoral amoral religion stages a strong comeback in the West; so does wildly-hyped social morality and consequent social- and self-destructionism; during this new decline in civilization, immoral amoral communism/welfare-statism is invented and soon takes over; god and state combine during this period to trash personal morality, morality in general, and the all-important center of morality: the individual

1900-2000: more of the same, except much worse, and thruout the whole world; Big Brother and nuclear Armageddon seem just around the corner; Stalin and Hitler traduce and trash rational morality and personal morality utterly -- as the State becomes a kind of secular "god"; the religion and welfare-state based morality of the day is so perverted, inverted and demented that it has become almost entirely the enemy of the Sacred Self and his collective society; a new Dark Age has descended

2000-2100: rationality and philosophy --invented some 2600 years ago! -- reascend; flagitious irrationality and religion retreat; proto-liberal libertarians and objectivists become a real intellectual force in world culture and people's moral codes; liberal culture, philosophy, ethics, and politics head toward full realization and perfection; moral individualism and ethical egoism ascend radically as loathsome, depraved, inane "sacrifice" and "selflessness" all but die out; by the end of the century, the priceless sacrosanct Individual -- the cynosure of the universe and of morality -- is more treasured, worshipped, prosperous, and transcendently happy than ever


I hope these help

I cant find a name on it to reference but I didnt write it, it was copied n pasted but is the general concensus I believe

DAMN!!!!!!!!!! Smart lady..

haha, thanks but I copied it

Mail, Trish!!!!

I very much doubt it.....

Politics and morals... I think not!
Politics and career... now that's nearer the mark!!

I would like to say from common sense of seeing what the differences of causing joy and pain do,but then I would be going against church and state as most seem to dictate what they see as just and moral depending on what best suits them at the time as shown throughout history. JMO

Try the religious records found on this planet; ancient Sumer. All of their ancient records have been found as...meaning no point of any known origin or beginning...All their records from Religious texts to school lessons, to world trade right down to taxes have been found and translations are still on-going. They are the origins of all our religious history, beliefs and how humanity evolved and progressed....long before any 10 commandments or the Bible as we know it came to be. Virtually all of which were copied from the Sumerians.
To seek origins, one must always go to the oldest known sources.

i doubt if morals have anything to do with religion. morals usually come from a sense of knowing what's right and what's wrong and the feeling of guilt.

but how do we get that sense?