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Hi.... are u very familiar with your Native American heritage? If you are I would love to hear a little about it... what kind of spiritual structure did u work within? was it complex.. simple?... Aries01

I have to say this Detente.. and I don't in any way mean to offend.. but I have to disagree with ur views on Philosophy as being 'inhuman' Philosophy is in its very essence a representation of what it is to be human.. it is our ability (as humans) to question every aspect of our being and beyond and what it is to be that has contributed to our 'advancement' (I use that word with reservation) and distinguishes us as creatures.... I agree that philosophical debates can appear arrogant and dogmatic at times and that it can be steeped in intellectual snobbery... but I think that is a symptom of the initiators of such behaviour, rather than of the disipline itself...

I get the impression from the intelligent and well thought out responses that u have made thus far, that u are in fact a bit of a 'philosopher' urself

I should have been more precise in my useage of the term 'inhuman' in this context.

You see, over the last few days, and in my earlier posts on this thread, I've commented that more is needed than just 'brute' intellect. Humanity, as the polar opposite of inhumanity, implies fellow feeling, compassion, love etc.

Any form of philosophy that excludes such essential qualities is in my view worthless and empty - mental masturbation if you like.

And that was my motivation in using that term. Sorry for not being clearer.

As for me being something of an ameteur philosopher...I tell you, I'm distinctly uncomfortable with that thought, even though I'm sure you meant it in a complimentary sense.

I wouldn't want any association with such a cold, callous pursuit. Of course, by definition, I am however thinking in such a manner. But I never want to stoop to such levels of Nietzshe-like vacuousness.

Well made points by you!

I dont think i interpret entirely what you have tried to explain. It would be great to hear more from you.

But i think a philosopher usually works out his own line of reason at times foollowing a master in pursuit of the truth. Usually the intention is to challenge the common though process and come with explanations in a different sense on their own.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this.

" Philosophy's ultimate purpose seems destined to erase all contrary thinking from the face of the earth"

This was in conjunction to this statement and then the rest of the paragraph.

You too??

An illustration of faith (faith in god/scriptures, written by MAN)

While Jesus was being nailed and plastered to the cross, the apostles milled about angrily, sneering at the soldiers, holding belief in their savior. Once erected those soldiers coralled the apostles and moved them down the hill.
The apostles did not leave, they continued to mill about, mumbling and shedding tears until all of a sudden they could hear words in the distance calling "Peter....Peter .."
Well Peter recognized JC's voice and ran up the hill to his savior screaming all the way "yes lord, what is it?" ... On his way a soldier unhappy with this event, chopped Peter's arm off, laughed haughtily and kicked him back down the hill.
The apostles began to give first aid, ripping bandages from their robes and tying the bloody stump to stem the blood flow.
As they finished, again they could hear "Peter.... Peter.." Peter being devoute ran up the hill again and alas before he got to JC, another soldier chooped his other arm, laughed and pushed him back down the hill, towit more bandages were applied.
Yet again they could hear "Peter, ... Peter " Peter in all his pain once again ran up the hill to heed his savior's words and yet again the soldiers, this time chopped off one of his legs hoping this would deter his assault on the mountain. Once again the apostles bandaged poor peter's stumped leg.
Then came the same call .. "Peter...Peter" Peter could not let his savior down and began hopping up the hill on one leg, almost out of breathe he began to say "yes lord, what.." and one of the soldiers, chopped off his other leg and summarily sent him tumbling back down the hill.
By this time the apostles were very angry and almost naked from having to tear so many of their robes to stop Peter's bleeding stumps, but again they could hear "Peter.... Peter. "
Well, peter began rolling up the hill until he met the soldiers again and begged them to let him pass. the soldier feeling he was no longer a threat now allowed him to pass.
Peter rolled to JC's feet and said "my lord and saviour, what is it?"
JC replied "Peter, I can see your house from here."

The moral of the story is you can have as much faith in god and anothers words as you want in the end all you get is "I can see your house from here."

just ask car bombing freaks who think theyre going to some hallowed ground and just rewards of pina colldas and dancing girls for answering allahs call, same goes for 911 or anyone who does things in the name of any god...Whacko, Jamestown ...

beleive in yourself.

I dont seem to understand it could be this way. There should be more to this story ..

you'll have to write it then my dear. the story ends, faith does not. place yours where it will do the most good.

Peter near killed himself beleiveing ina savior who had nothing more to say than "I can see your house from here."


a whole lot of time and blood is wasted chasing faith in deities and gods?


making sense yet ?

I agree with u.. particularly on ur point 'Any form of philosophy that excludes such essential qualities is in my view worthless and empty - mental masturbation if you like'

over intellectualisation can be very counter productive, I also think that over quoting other peoples theories (as if they are indisputable thruths incapable of being challenged) lack insight and imagination..

This is why contributions from people like urself (reluctant philosophers) tend to be alot more insightful

There is no interpretation to the " i can see your house from here ? "

thanks riya :blush:

alright I apologize for leaving you in a quandry ...

the interpretation is included below that line ....however I will attempt to expound..

many people follow a faith and its leaders to death without any proof that where their going is actually a sound/wise place to be.

One example and there are many as I have stated is :
terrorists in the name of god and allah whoever and his teachings (sometimes reworked by the leader for his own designs) strap bombs to themselves for the purpose of dying to reach heaven in the name of god.

You'll need to show me heaven before that makes any sense at all.
Faith doesn't come from god or scripture, beleif in faith does perhaps as misplaced as it is. Faith resides, like hope within you...

hmmm.. ... I thought ther emust be a religious interpetation to this one.. you know.. hidden meaning sort of thing.

Everytime i visit the temple ... i am smitten by my own faith in the supreme being.. and everytime i try to reason it out .. theres more logic to disbelief than there is to blind faith. Like you say " show me heaven " i feel i need something to see to realise and to accept. But then again ther eis what one calls belief in faith.

A Maze it is !!