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I can see the appeal of letting them kill each other, but then, aren't we just as bad as them if we let that happen? Jails are over crowded not with violent offenders, but with drug offenders. And the "three strikes" laws didn't help much. That is why they have been overturned in many states.

The reason our need for jails increases is because the "private Jail" business always needs new people to incarcerate in those government funded-privately owned prisons.

Just a note on "freedom", because that is an important issue when discussing a person's right to live a healthy and happy life, without some maniac entering it and screwing you over.

Consider if you will, the person who was violated, the family of the person who was shot, mamed, attacked. Many of these people suffer from PTSD .. post traumatic stress disorder, they develope all kinds of mental dis-ease from the attacks of criminals, just like soldiers do (and they do are mistreated by gov.). Agoraphobia being just one of those, panic attacks and other mental issues that keep 'them' locked on their homes, essentially prisoners in their own homes! What did they do that they should be a prisoner?

Whats the cost of helping them? where is the justice system for these people? where is the three squares a day, social interaction, rehab? The sytsem sucks big time and most countries are piszing money out the wrong end of their proverbial arse.

jmho

They do not have guards with guns keeping them in their house. I agree they need help, but they can get it. There is no escape for those in a jail, and that is the way it should be. Locked up, with no hope.

I'm not so sure they would kill each other dude ... i think there IS a deterrent in knowing that if you murder someone, or attempt to , that you'll be sent to place where other people who are want to settle their issues the same way. Some would kill yes, because there humans beyond hope, mentally and psychologically imparied, at least to civil standards.

When you think about it, knowing that you'll be sent to a place where there are unrestrained murderers and abusers like that, where every day would be hell in trying to hide from another moron who would just as soon beat the crap out of you as look at you., it would IMHO deter idiots and make them think twice. Will I live through today, or shyte I hope Bowser doesn't see me today, is far more a deterrent than, what time is lunch or whats on espn 1 today? ..makes sense..

I even think this would lower the overcrowding in jails because it is a deterrent. Let them live, we dont kill them, they kill each other, thats gods choice then, we're just supplying the means for their mindset... a nice payground where they can kill if they want, beat each other up if they want. good for the goose, good for the gander ..

If I'm not wrong Alcatraz was the last prison of the kind you are speaking of.Where maxinum prisoners are sent ,mostly high risk felons murderers and such.Yet our taxpayer dollars are being spent to house yet more inmates so where is the stopping point.Do we keep living in an enviroment where a child commits a crime and if it isn't dealt with then he gets a mindset that he might do it again.And if they see the law as treating them different will this cause them to act out more.

No they can't get it dude.. do you know how much it costs??? these people can;t afford the cost of drugs let alone therapy, just like soldiers they are left to their own devices and incomes... and why should they have to spend their money to recover from what some freak ass did to them??? their money should be used for their kids, for the better of their lives , not because some jerk attacked them, causing all manner of mental illness ... and then the justice system abandoms them... comon... serious dude.

Its just not right when you think about it.

Kev where are you you getting that the prisons are full of drug offenders.You need to go visit these prisons,I have.I went to see ladies who defended theirself from being beat only to kill their abuser.Was that par for the course.I have went there to talk to these major players.Ones you say should be incarcerated for life.And they all hinge on the samething they have found religion.And personally speaking the three times you are out does work.If knowing after three felonies you get life it can change your tune.And back to the drugs you are talking about.Did you know you can get anything inside as you can on the streets and guards are paid to keep quiet.They have their own drug running set up inside of any prison and if you snitch you die.Yeah people talk tgto me,thank God they do.The whole prison system needs the evaluation,get those bad apples out,then go from there.

The problem with the justice system is that is made by people like you and I, civil people. People who think that that civility works, so we chose civil penalties, civil laws and indeed those penalties work on 'civil minded' people ... take away the freedom of a civil person, yep that works on a civil person.

Think like a criminal and you get punishment that deters a criminal.

Criminals laugh at 'civil' punishment because it is sooo ridiculous! Guards protect you from the very thing you did to someone else, murder, mayhem and destruction, they feed you, clean your cloths, give you tv etc ... thats civil ... the same civil they had on the outside and now theyre protected by it? Want to deter a criminal, think like one..


paradoxical lamentations

I agree. They should be compensated. And if we only had some kind of..health care....that people could afford, they would be able to get the help they need. What I am saying is that jail is a complete loss of freedom. And that sucks. I'm not comparing victims with the criminals, just hat loss of freedoms is a great punishment for crime.

The Victims should not be abandoned, but they are. How does that relate to the death penalty and punishment?

This is true its like you bow down and theres always a big dog in every jail.And I seen if a child molestor is put into the population well all I can say is he never walks straight.They have codes that they live by.They have rank like you would in the armed services.And when one is released what does he do but get right back to the life of crime.Cause hey while locked up he beat the system so why not now.Again if they get lost in the system then you are lost if you are sent to minium but end up in maxinum it takes forever to get out.

Yes. I did know all that. I have seen movies too!

And as far as violent vs. non-violent in jail:


The Justice Department recently released data showing that the number of prisoners in America rose to 1.8 million last year, the highest level ever, and the second largest prison population in the world. Using the most recent Justice Department data, the Justice Policy Institute found that last year two-thirds of those 1.8 million were incarcerated for nonviolent offenses, representing the first time in American history that more than one million (1,185,458) people were confined for crimes involving no violence.

the simple question kev, is then .. why do criminal types continue to commit crimes if loss of 'outside' freedom is a good deterent?

Proof suggests other wise Kev...

I am not suggesting the death penalty, but maybe the 'you belong with people like you' penalty.

I am NOT for the death penalty, but I am for putting like minded morons in the same place as other like minded morons and letting them sort out their criminal minded shyte...(thats gods business- eye for eye) We dont issue a death penalty for them, but they take a chance on getting it from other morons who would bugger them rape them and kill them ...

Civil people put other civil people together for all sorts of things, cancer patients for example, a means of support, boyscouts, girlguides, womens abuse centers... its the civil and best way to learn and teach whatever 'group' is represented by it.

""Victims should not be abandoned but they are"".... how sad is that? How utterly uncivil is that? makes you want to cry if you're civil at all ... yet the criminal is not abandoned? We are abandoning the wrong people and criminals know it.. thats not a deterent. JMHO

fark me.

Indeed. But even YOUR ideas are too civil, B!

'Want to deter a criminal, think like one . . . '

Some 'criminal' thoughts are on their way . . .

Ray

It is murder by the people--- and condones the killing of same.

'That way they deal with the same sort of people they are and can mame and mutilate one another. Let em cull their own herds so to speak. If they feel/think barbarianism is acceptable then let them deal with others who think and act that way. Just give them an arena to play in.'

Who is in support of this?

Why? Because you are all too afraid of the moral implications (namely upon your perfect selves) of advocating the death penalty or carrying it out?

Because you don’t want their ‘evil’ blood on your hands . . . or on your CONSCIENCE?

To the extent that you would rather advocate a state of complete anarchy on an isolated island somewhere for them? That THIS will keep YOUR hands clean and your conscience CLEAR as they gleefully mutilate and defile each other? Or form like pack-hounds against pack-hounds and produce a little hell on earth for themselves? And say: ‘let god handle them’.

You’ll pardon me if I permit myself a conceited laugh.

A man bludgeons, rapes and murders 30 beautiful young women . . . and we sit here with our weak little wills considering HIS right to live provided he is imprisoned, fed, watered, sheltered, and thus ‘punished’ for what he did [that is, when we are being realistic and not thinking about 'the island'.]

A man who has done this: . . . I do not care about his sickness, I do not care about his well being, about his ‘life’, about ‘punishing’ him, about what he ‘DESERVES’ – I care only about what he DOESN’T deserve . . .

And THAT . . . is his LIFE!

Thank God I was almost born without a conscience for those who were born COMPLETELY without one.

How many millions of lives have been taken in war; how many lives ended with the drop of a bomb (how many STILL today?) . . . in the name of ending a threat to a nation or to nations? To the world, even?

But not ONE life should [according to you people] be taken that poses or posed as much of a threat [as the one mentioned above]; and not ONE message sent out to mankind that such a man forfeits the right to live his own life because he has lived it at the pointless expense of other lives?

I’ve got no problem with advocating the death penalty - and if it pays well, of carrying it out or belonging to the process that does so.

It’s like those nice stakes you sit there eating in the restaurant: some man, somewhere, slaughters them and has their lives on HIS conscience and their blood on HIS hands so that you can have their tender meat in your belly with your wine and make love to your wife afterwards and maintain your ‘virtue’ of being a peaceful loving human being INcapable of killing . . .

To kill is instinct. To have compassion or even consideration for that which can kill you or the ones you love is dogmatic madness.

I see only two differences between the man I have alluded to above and a beast. The beast is more human, and can make a good meal.

It is better to eat than to be eaten.

To kill with the authority of government/state legislation is NOT instinctive behaviour as you well know.

If killing is as instinctive in humans as it is in animals why do we all not kill somebody who happens to get in our way? Why haven't you committed such a crime? Because you are not an animal and you understand the difference between right and wrong....I assume.

Few people would claim to feel compassion for somebody who had taken the life of one of their loved ones, however that doesn't necessarily mean that they would sanction the death penalty. And why do you use an example of a man bludgeoning 30 young, beautiful women? Is that to gain some sort of male sympathy vote? Are the lives of young, beautiful women more precious than say 30 middle-aged disabled men?

You are obviously an intelligent young man but sometimes you say such ridiculous nonsense. With age and experience you will certainly stand out from the crowd.

cant say I'm with you on the death sentence though ray, the rest is well thought I think, provided we are dsicussing the more heanous of crimes.

I am more a mind to put them together and let them all sort it out, but only because god (if there is one) has donw this with us all, placed us on an island to sort things out. By placing them (criminals) in their own hellish environment leaves it to gods hands again. This something though seemingly barbaric, suits my hands absolution as it were.

For me to say, you should be dead or lose your life is me playing god and though I may be in his/her image I don't consider myself solely wise enough to make such a choice on the ultimate of decisions of life for another....however; murderers do haver that thought, that they can play god over a victim's life, so let 'em do it together.

Wars are just as ill-thought as murder.. presidents and kings who seldom see war at all, send your daughters and sons off to do their battles? I say let george and saddam fight in a ring together, whatever weapons they want, weiner gougers, head mashers, ball krimpers, whatever; winner gets to control the oil for ten years and then another pair of idot rulers can fight over it...

stop sending my kids after your shyte! meglomaniacs!

Jan he did say he was coming at this from a criminal thought process .. thinking like a criminal...

and a criminal would indeed think as ray has suggested, incompassionately ... he does or he/she would not choose to kill at all...

he is smart if not young, but one sometimes has to follow very closely where he is coming from... and that was from a criminal point of view, incompassionate, delusional etc ...

This is getting a little out loud.Its that people who kill with no rhyme or reason that have or serve no purpose in every day life.In Quantico,Va studies are made on the behavior traits of a killer.There are different kinds ,sorted into different classes but they all are beyond ,any help.And so in your thinking if they kill we should lock them up,give them a leeway to kill.Sometimes matters have to be dealt with,and laws have to be governed that is why we made them.

That is Ted Bundy’s death toll.

I do not really mean to kill ‘humans’ is instinct [even though in many humans it clearly has been and is], but that to kill itself is necessary and instinctual, and always has been: that people should not be so afraid of advocating death because it is ‘killing’ and killing is ‘wrong’.

Why? Because:

Thou shall not kill (that wonderful commandment issued to mankind by that old murderer Moses himself!)

Mankind has been twisted into believing MANY twisted things.

Love those who hate you.

Turn the other cheek when someone hits you.

Give everything to the poor and join them for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Judge not lest you be judged.

Well let me tell you one thing, if all Religion vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow and law remained, there’d be no problem.

But if all law vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow and only religion remained, prepare for Anarchy!

That’s how much I think of Religion. But even those who no longer believe in Religion, their minds are still stuck with the commandments/moral laws of the religions. They don't even realize it!!!

We have been sold lies for hundreds and thousands of years!!!!!, told how to think, how to rule, how to love, how to judge [not to judge], to be meek, mild, submissive, merciful to the point of absurdity etc . . .

And look at the man who established the Ten Commandments: that old murderer Moses and his rabble of murdering Jews, the chosen people of God!

Exodus 2:6-11

‘One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. The next day he went out and saw two Hebrews fighting. He asked the one in the wrong, ‘Why are you hitting your fellow Hebrew?’

The man who established the Ten Commandments . . .

My own father has killed people – he was a freedom fighter in Rhodesia – his father has killed in WWII. And his father before him.

We as people kill and eat animals, slaughter them for their fur.

But we will not kill an Inhuman being, because that might make US inhuman.

We already are. We live by consuming the living until dead.