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ah contraire (probably spelled wrong)...

If you don't know where you are, but you have a map, you still have to exercise faith in that map to get somewhere. Just having the map doesn't get you anywhere.

I just think the better the map, the more faith I can have in it.

many of us choose different maps , compases, get our directions from the stars or even follow hunches.

I like ordnance survey maps myself as I know the chosen route will have all possible danger areas mapped out - accordingly, I dont need faith to follow it

If you follow it, doesn't that mean you have faith in it? Doesn't you being absolutely sure of your map mean you have absolute faith in it?

not really, the way I see it is that faith = belief, whilst knowledge = fact

belief and fact are different - believing something does not make it a fact - my assurance in my map is based on lots of research that the criteria followed by the particular company producing them are to the highest possible standards, tried, tested and confirmed by millions - not in need of collecting customers by using coersionary tactics such as 'faith'

faith however is more going with a hunch and hoping one is correct - much like Pascals Wager

You're quite welcome to Roadmaps that are 2-7000 years old,and were not too accarately drawn then.
I'for one,need something just a bit more recent than that.

hahaha - well said Conrad - trisha limps off from kicking herself for not thinking of that

I say don't ask what God can do for you, but how can you please and honor him?

A'int JFK stated something similar to that,except he substituted "Country" for "God" ?

Hey Gilly

it is difficult sometimes to see the presence of God.
but everything has a purpose to touch another, i could sit with you and speak on many things in this realm.
Why does he allow disabled and handicapped people to be born... simple thier life is here to be of some purpose to one who will need that specail touch only they can give.

Why do Good people die so young...Same reason.

We all have a purpose in the grand scheme of things... we must live our lives to the ability we have and hope we served our purpose.

Hope you are doing well and the weather chippers up soon there... enjoy the warmth when you can get it

Conrad...
You still are my hero... great way of stating it.

God still believes in you,buddy.

Hi,Eric

Gilly, since there is no God as you say then according to you He doesn't exist. If He doesn't exist, why do you ask where He was during these times?

God gave us free will. We chose to do what we do. At those points, and many more, God was shedding tears. His children killing each other.

What's the point of having a God? We don't have Him, He has us. Maybe at certain points, He asks Himself, what's the point of having children?


jmo

"But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." 2nd Corinthians 4:3-4

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." Romans 1:18-25

Its amazing how much this old map has to say that is unmistakably relevant today. It's funny how this old map has withstood the greatest critics and attackers of each generation alike, and still remains whole and undefiled by man.

Only those who just plain refuse to accept it, are able to dismiss it as not worthy of consideration.

Trish,

I could almost swear you were talking about the bible here:

"belief and fact are different - believing something does not make it a fact - my assurance in my map is based on lots of research that the criteria followed by the particular company producing them are to the highest possible standards, tried, tested and confirmed by millions - not in need of collecting customers by using coersionary tactics such as 'faith'"

Well maybe except of the last part.

You see, you have no fact until you arrive at your destination. That confirms that your map was correct. Nothing else confirms that. So you have faith in "lots of research that the criteria followed by the particular company producing them are to the highest possible standards, tried, tested ". But you have not proved it to be correct until you get there and say it was right.

My bible has been the result of "lots of research that the criteria followed by the particular compan(ies) producing them are to the highest possible standards, tried, tested and confirmed by millions." It has endured and proven itself correct through the ages.

But it will not be until the end of the book that we see it finally and totally confirmed. If the bible is correct in describing the end, then we will see it as being absolutely and finally true. And that will be then end of the faith in it because you have now arrived.

most research I have read on the Bible only concludes that the various gospels have been extensively tampered with and variously written many years after after the depicted events, thereby rendering them to be nothing more than hear-say, people control and wishful thinking - contrived mainly by the first council of nicea which was long after the supposed earth time of Jesus

Excellent view... and very profound.
I believe this staement says leaps and bounds....

I think Hitler said:

"If you say a lie long enough and loud enough, it eventually becomes the truth"

That sure describes the time in which we live. No with the internet you can post whatever lie and not have to have a single shread of proof. Then someone can read it, then write a book from it, then make a movie about it, and then it must be true.

Scholars who have tried to disprove the bible have been trying for ages now. And they are no more successful now than there were then. It's just now, we don't ask for proof. All we want is something that sounds real good, poetic, and can be preach with conviction. "Did you hear him? That must be true." How else does anyone get elected into office in this country.

where was god during the days of slavery world ? war 2 ? and 9/11 ?


The same place He was when they cruicified His only begotten Son. He was always there.