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Trish,

Are you using this one man's words as your arguement?

I found what he said to have one redeeming quality. It sounded logical. So if you believe anything that sounds logical like that, then all I have to do to make you believe anything is make it sound logical? Or make it sound good to you?

I read and choose to believe the bible because it wasn't written in a way that it could be considered the lovely words of one man. 66 books, by 44 different authors. What if you got this guy, and 43 others to write one book. Get people from all walks of life. Get some doctors, lawyers, fishermen, construction workers, farmers, philosophers, kings/presidents, holy men, etc. Now let them write on some of these things: morality, healthcare, the law, the envoirment, poetry, where the world came from, where the world is going, and love. Seperate them over the world and over 1500 years. Then put it all together. What would you have? You know. But the bible isn't like that. The more you read it the more you are convinced it's written by one person.

Not only that, but we have almost 2000 yrs of people endorsing it as true by the difference it makes in their lives.

It bible is so unique, it makes all other books the same (how is this for laying a good statement to attack out there LOL).

We have so much that proves the bible true (historically, scientifically, litterally, by testimonies-eye witness accounts, by it's longevity, etc.). There just isn't near enough time to do it justice.

Please don't think I only read the bible. Though I believe truth is truth, and that all truth comes from God, I do not believe everything true is in the bible (but everything thing in the bible is true). But having said that, I will say this, real truth does not contradict real truth. So I believe all truth will line up with the bible.

I hope that made sense.

No Mike - but there was only opportunity to quote one man - i have reams of such information if you would like to see some................

Gods are man made concepts - simple superstions gotten very complicatedly out of hand - historically used to manipulate and control hence, the current attempts to 'evangelise the internet' - this will never work while there are people like me around!!!

the church is losing its sheeple at an alarming rate - for them! for me and millions like me who are freeing ourselves from these cruel shackls, I shout EUREEKA..............

Many have asked that all reference to god be removed from our schools, our government, our public places, our money, and our lives.
Perhaps, God has given us our wish and has silently removed himself from the arena.

Sometimes, when you get what you ask for, It's really not what you want

hmmm............... and perhaps he was only ever a figment of the imagination to begin with......................

Always amazes me how people can blame god for the actions of man,

I am that saying I believe in God but to blame something for our own stupidity and greed is a cop out

rem we in the allied powers where just as responsible for letting an evil like hitler rise to power in Germany

we started the first world war out of greed for the worlds resources

we punished germany in 1918 through the treaty of versailles that treaty was created out of stupidity and greed.

Slavery was out of greed power and laziness

If there is a god and maybe he is "our father who art in heaven" perhaps like any father he wants us to grow up act responsibily to each other and take responsibility for our actions

again I am not saying I believe in god, just thinking out loud

Star6114, I think I agree with you more than I want to admit.

No Trish - The church is losing nothing. In 1994, 35000 a day were joining the church in Latin America. In 1999, the same was achieved by China. There is a church that has 1.5 million members in Soel, Korea, and it is still growing. And in countries where Christianity is illegal, the underground churches are thriving with revival. Now in this country, with its materialism and self-centeredness, and over blow religion it's not that easy to find a real follower of Christ. I don't call myself a Christian with much confidience. I know the truth. But much like I know that healthy food is good for me and don't eat it, I cannot be classified as a being truly sold out for Jesus.

But not to worry! The bible says in the end there will be a great falling away.

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." Matthew 24:24

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2Timothy 4:3 & 4

"The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived." Revelation 18:23

After all, Jesus said:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13 & 14


For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Romans 1:20-25

Wow, it's like reading today's newspaper.

"Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." James 3:13

this is a very accurate description of both sides of the argument,
each side seeing the other - in the less flattering light, for the same reasons.

except Christians are active in keeping hope for the other side that they will come to a "saving knowledge " (which is one of the worse things a Christian can probably say to those devoutely against Christian precepts .)

Why does it seem God is always blamed when people do bad things yet he's never given credit for the good things that happen in our lives? We seem to be so quick to blame and so slow to give credit.

But to answer the original question, I remember something from my childhood that has always stuck with me. George Burns, in his role as God, in the movie "Oh God" was asked why he let bad things happen. He gave the following answer: "Have you ever seen an up without a down? a top without a bottom?... Well you can't have good without bad" (Not an exact quote it was 30 years ago) He also went into some of the other things like free will. His answer was simplistic but his point was pretty clear i.e. you can't have one without the other.