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Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’?

Do you believe in moral absolutism? [for the dullard: pure objective grounds for morality? For the COMPLETE fool: moral directives that remain unalterable no matter what the circumstance?

I.e. Turn the other cheek?: The greatest moral directive to give as an example of the problem of moral absolutism . . .

Another is: thou shall not kill. Supposing you are being killed? Or someone is trying to kill your mother and it is a question of you stopping them by wounding them, and possibly fatally . . . Should you, believing that these are moral ABSOLUTES, allow yourself to be killed, your mother to be killed (your nation to be attacked???). . . Because: Thou Shall Not Kill?

Can killing be justified, and if it can - where can it?

There is a great problem in the sphere of Morality and Ethics: it is the quest for objective grounds for morality . . .

The most famous work in moral philosophy is known as: ‘Groundwork For The Metaphysics of Morals’ [Kant]. Morality rests on an illusion of objectivity. On an illusion of ABSOLUTISM.

People take moral directives as unconditional absolutes, which is like accepting: ‘Thou Shall always wear thy seatbelt while thy vehicle is in motion . . .even when thine vehicle is about to burst into a fireball and go over a cliff, for it is STILL in motion . . .’

I hate people.

I was on a thread a while ago where I brought up this issue, especially in relation to ‘Thou Shall not Kill‘, to which I replied, thou shall not kill . . . UNLESS . . .

thou art being KILLED.

To which some wise person whom I will not name, said: what about turn the other cheek?

[I believe Bnatural rather wryly replied: you mean DEAD cheek?]

What are your opinions on these moral issues? . . .

Are there moral absolutes? WHAT are they if there ARE?

I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.

Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’?

Do you believe in moral absolutism? [for the dullard: pure objective grounds for morality? For the COMPLETE fool: moral directives that remain unalterable no matter what the circumstance?

I.e. Turn the other cheek?: The greatest moral directive to give as an example of the problem of moral absolutism . . .

Another is: thou shall not kill. Supposing you are being killed? Or someone is trying to kill your mother and it is a question of you stopping them by wounding them, and possibly fatally . . . Should you, believing that these are moral ABSOLUTES, allow yourself to be killed, your mother to be killed (your nation to be attacked???). . . Because: Thou Shall Not Kill?

Can killing be justified, and if it can - where can it?

There is a great problem in the sphere of Morality and Ethics: it is the quest for objective grounds for morality . . .

The most famous work in moral philosophy is known as: ‘Groundwork For The Metaphysics of Morals’ [Kant]. Morality rests on an illusion of objectivity. On an illusion of ABSOLUTISM.

People take moral directives as unconditional absolutes, which is like accepting: ‘Thou Shall always wear thy seatbelt while thy vehicle is in motion . . .even when thine vehicle is about to burst into a fireball and go over a cliff, for it is STILL in motion . . .’

I hate people.

I was on a thread a while ago where I brought up this issue, especially in relation to ‘Thou Shall not Kill‘, to which I replied, thou shall not kill . . . UNLESS . . .

thou art being KILLED.

To which some wise person whom I will not name, said: what about turn the other cheek?

[I believe Bnatural rather wryly replied: you mean DEAD cheek?]

What are your opinions on these moral issues? . . .

Are there moral absolutes? WHAT are they if there ARE?

I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.


Ouch! Ray is back!
The original Commandment was:Thou shalt not Murder
!!
Puts a different Spin on things.

As for turning the Other Cheek,what you gonna do when you run out of Cheecks?
Last time I counted there were only four.

I prefer to be subjective, feeling my way along, meeting each moment and situation on my own terms.

How refreshing to be despised

moral absolutism is simply another way of saying 'people control'

Hi Ray, good to see you

Greeting Ray, you big, soft cynic you.

Absolutism...or were does common sense come in to play.

Ray, this is my understanding of some things you were alluding to in your OP.

If somebody was attacking me or my future family, I'd defend myself and them with reasonable force. That's just common sense.

In turning the other cheek, I'd be allowing verbal insults to pass me by without retaliating in like manner.

As for the value of human life, and killing...Ray, human life IS sacred.

So, I'd do my level best to not put myself in a position were I could cause harm to another person. And that included a refusal to fight in ANY war, or bear arms in any capacity.

Also, for instance, I'd make sure my driving is up to standard.

You get the picture.

There are VERY few moral absolutes. I like to think of them as moral PRINCIPLES in any case...as it allows for a different method of acheiving the same aim for each person.

Less rigid...more reasonable...and requiring a deeper understanding of the REASONS for such statements.

Good health!

Brilliant!

Trish always hits issues right on the mark.

trish saved us a whole bunch of pity from Ray



that's just wrong

haha - Thanks Ray

my motto is; If thine enemy smite thee - smite the bugger right back

Level-headed and well-said Detente . . . but . . .

Human life is sacred? . . . depends on the human.

As is often over-looked, I am not asking these questions on individual grounds but posing them to individuals to work outward from them . . .
How do we apply morality to the leaders of the State?

These issues are not as simple as they seem. Human life is sacred? What about abortion? Should it be allowed? Capital punishment [on what grounds should we not end the lives of those who end lives . . .]

Because life is sacred? - EXACTLY. Even the lives of those who end innocent lives?

Euthanasia. Is it right, is it wrong? [I believe there is nothing a human being has more of an incontestable right to take than their own life, whether it is morally right to do so or not . . . ].

On Abortion: I believe it is WRONG! However, I believe no one has the right to tell someone else they don’t HAVE the right to abort their own child (but that the circumstantial considerations under which they MAY abort a child should be considered BY the abortionist bastards . . . Etc . . .

And war . . . well . . . sometimes it is necessary [when the lives of the people of the state and the entire state itself are threatened by another, or elsewhere in the world help is needed etc] . . .

that smight get a whole bunch of dullards dead!

Luckily Al, I dont get smitten all that often

I pity myself in advance for absolutely not caring morally one way or the other that Ray despises me! Sigh. I must be in a morally relativist wilderness.

I believe in common sense.......the rest shall follow.

Even that computer armour cannot always save you....

Hey how do you know that smiter was a buggerer too?

just a hunch and just in case

Within reason Ray! ... a person on drugs without the ability to reason properly ... drugs affect choice and maybe this person has chosen the path of slowly killing themselves ny indulging but the actual act perpetrated without clarity of mind is contestable ..

yes a killer who might bugger the dead only

With most people, it is not the things that are not understood that causes confusion. It is those things understood that they don't want to do that causes them to rationalize on other things and not do that understood.

With most people, it is not the things that are not understood that causes confusion. It is those things understood that they don't want to do that causes them to rationalize on other things and not do that understood.

Is that a "known known" or an "unknown unknown"?

Who has the right to make this choice for others? Who has the right to in effect conscript others for what they beleive is right? ... does "I elect you to run my country" mean my life choices on the world front are now in their control? That confuses 'rights' with righteousness .... thou shalt not confuse me