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oh ye chumpage of absolutes ...


one can be equally moral without being religious ... "perfection" is as absolute as any dogma. you hit your head or something?

'one can be equally moral without being religious ... "perfection" is as absolute as any dogma. you hit your head or something? '

you know what I meant, but



Enjoyed your posts, B

it also strikes me that one can be equally religious without being lawful, religiously carbombing the absolute infedels.

perspective relativity

the bible or whatever was the first of laws (Call it moral code if you like) , though I doubt it was meant to be the first of religion

man made that assumption.

You know what strikes me as absolutely foolish is the acceptance of christians that this jesus died for our sins, meaning ALL of our sins, ALL of us, forever and ever .. yet our conduct results in some heaven or hell? ... one needs to sin to make hell (assumes we haven't really been absolved at all)... yet he died for them so I have none (being as he already died for them?); in this absolute belief? Seems to me we are all going to heaven.... or he died for nothing.

Where was I? .. oh ya, coveting my neighbors wife, tanning in the backyard ... Boobage!

'it also strikes me that one can be equally religious without being lawful, religiously carbombing the absolute infedels.

perspective relativity

The bible or whatever was the first of laws (Call it moral code if you like) , though I doubt it was meant to be the first of religion

man made that assumption.' - B

Indeed. You should read 'The Law Code of Manu'

A very problematic Indian religious text that I am studying at the moment, causing all kinds of problems in India today (oppression of women etc).

It is Law/moral-directives clothed in allegory and mysticism and then fed to the people as an 'absolute' that MAKES a religion . . . in my opinion.

Good Morning Ray...

'You know what strikes me as absolutely foolish is the acceptance of christians that this jesus died for our sins, meaning ALL of our sins, ALL of us, forever and ever .. yet our conduct results in some heaven or hell? ... one needs to sin to make hell (assumes we haven't really been absolved at all)... yet he died for them so I have none (being as he already died for them?); in this absolute belief? Seems to me we are all going to heaven.... or he died for nothing. '


I remember reading in Ghandi’s autobiography a few years ago, a good case against Christianity in a similar manner. It was in Ghandi’s reply to a letter from a priest trying to convince him that Christianity was the one true religion and get him to convert, and even pointing out to him its advantages over other religions to an individual.

Ghandi said he could not accept a religion where a man died to absolve HIM from his wrong-doing and could not see how he did OR could have . . .

In the end he said after reading all the religious texts that he felt more lost than he ever had in his whole life, and it was then that he said ‘God is Truth’.

And that is what is on the front cover of his autobiography.

I won't likely read any books, one doesn't need to to see the sheep blindly accepting their path to the slaughter.


Most religion has oppressed woman, oppressed her very nature. Parents who taught their dauhters that sex was dirty, that their naked bodies were dirty because they bought religion. Some women are just coming to terms with this debaucle; but there are still many with this inbred belief that keeps them from any sort of enjoyment let alone celebration of their being as a sensual creature.
True one should be smart in such persuits but smart is a long way from being oppressed.

'Good Morning Ray...' -Blue-eyed.

Hi Blue-eyed! . . . mmmm, blue-eyed . . .

'I won't likely read any books, one doesn't need to to see the sheep blindly accepting their path to the slaughter. '

It’s one thing to see these problems (ie in India), it’s quite another to read The Law Code of Manu and see PRECISELY where they are coming from . . . and postulate what can be done about it

Where is Riya? I wonder what she has to say about The Law Code of Manu?

One other thing required, believing and accepting the gift of forgiveness of our sins that he died for.

Did you even read the Bible? If not, don't talk about something you don't know about. If ya did, you missed something, maybe the part about faith.

faith doesn't disprove the contradictions.... in fact it only mires it further in confounded silliness.

I find forgiveness in my fellow man and myself, doesn't require faith or belief in any mumbo jumbo, nor does it take away my own sense of responsibilty for my life and my actions. Faith is dubious crutch for those unable to stand on their own.



god is something you don't KNOW about. Something mired in faith and lofty nothingness yet you talk about it as if you know .... as if faith is knowing ... curious... its this kind of knowing and talk about it that keeps the wheels of dogma spinning.

Yadda yadda yadda

The scientist has faith also...hopefully expecting to find out the secrets of the universe.

It's no different Al



We, as humans, don't know diddly squat. We get all arrogant and have these lofty ideas we do, but in reality, we're just realising the enormity of what's out there.

You believe in the stars Al? Anything set in stone there?

Nope, didn't think so.

Glass houses and stones dear boy!

Thanks Detente, you answered so well I don't have to.

... what you speak of is curiousity my dear boy and is very different from the definition of faith in dogma.


faith in religion and some omnipotent (unfactual) god dispells curiousity, it mires an individual in a beleif system that creates boundaries to the same curiousity you and I so highly prize.

Faith in god already has its end dude, and will go no further to prove that end, unless the curious search for it.

A blind attempt at detenting some credit however mislead.

I'll take glass houses over closed minds any day.

and accepting that there is nothing but this centuries old unproven god based on nothing but faith is as closed minded as it gets. Hold this faith and you learn nothing new. JMHO

'Faith is the assured expectation of realities, though not yet beheld.'

There, that's the gist of the way the bible itself describes the faith it's on about.

I'm finding myself believing more and more in the liklihood of there being a God. And Al, I'm still hellishly curious about this universe, and will always adore science and a lil 'light' philosophy.

Open mind? Yup...I do my best Al, and I'm not afraid to challenge myself either.


I'm just glad I have the choice...and the complete free will to make whichever choice I like.

Just the same as you.

Closed minds? Again, I feel you're tarnishing all with the same, grubby brush.

How do you justify your observations in view of the fact that there are many scientists, and Quantum Mechanics who profess a belief in there being a 'God'?

Indeed, Isaac Newton, one of the greatest minds of all time, was a professed believer in there being a Creator.

Al, Christianity, or any form of Deity obeisance doesn't preclude there being an inquiring and open mind along with it.