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if we only ever disagree on defintions and the fundemantals of curiousity and faith I'd be happy to call you freind absolutely .. though I hate to use absolutes, the bane of my curiousty.

Smart arse!

true dude, but not inextricably so. these are not tandem expectations... separation of church and 'self' state is as obsequious as separation of church and political state.

newton found a great deal of useful information, laws of energy etc. as do most great minds. This does not preclude them from falling into the trap. the fear of god is often motivation enough to beleive for any mind regardless of its greatness or curiousity.

Is there a god? I dunno... I know what I think has a chance to be god based on factual information available to me. Should I fear this god and only do good because of it. No I should do good because I feel it is the best course, not because some hell will converge on me and swallow me up whole.


gotta run.. have a great day folks!

This 'fear' which you mention is an important element, and needs clarification, as does this dreadful Catholic concept of 'hell'.

Fear - a healthy distaste for causing offence to one to whom you deify.

That's my understanding of the whole biblical fear concept. You just can't be expected to love somebody who you're sh*t scared of!

Which brings us on to the misnomer that is 'hell'.

The Hebrew word for 'hell' means 'grave', or 'tomb'. It does not, anyware, carry the idea of being a place of eternal, fiery torment.

As if such a place could ever be in keeping with a loving God!!!!!

No, biblically, it is without genuine foundation.

So, that kinda takes the fear element away to some extent.

Another nasty Catholic prank to keep the masses under control I'm afraid.

Have a good day Al!

Well ... that is something what society “to enforce” you, there are rules which we should or should not respect.

But most important is what we bring from our family. How our parents, school, educate us.

Second, not less important what we accept of all education which they offer to us.

But in different situation, all of us will have different reaction.

Our behaviors and appreciate different values in life, as we become older, always modified. But, basic education we were trough all our life.

Having a great day thanks!



The bible is a useful philosophhic, alligorical and metaphorical mirror of goodness and its an almanac of sorts.
The problem is that it brings god as reality, not as a concept that it truley is. Man does that.

This is santa claus, the easter bunny, mather nature, father time, fantasy for its ends at its finest ...

Sooner or later you have to be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat. Show me the farkin rabbit!

A 7 yr old gets a brain and realizes the fantasy about santa, the tooth fairy et al, because it fails the rabbit in the hat test.

Yet for more that 2000 years now this god, this rabbit has not given one shred of its existence save to say postulation, conjecture and faith that it is there. That is religious belief! apply it to santa and you'd be locked up summarily as a wacko.

Why is then that adults with real brian power still want to beleive there is this santa of the heavens?

You get rid of santa and
THEN all his elves and reindeer fall away, no longer viable
belief that he has a gazzillion gifts and gets to every house at midnight -no longer viable.
His north pole home - no longer viable.

get rid of this god and all the trappings fall away. you can't beleive in god without beleiving the trappings. As long as there is this unknown god, people will take full advantage of its being (even without proof) to create all manner of fantasy to that man's ends, to add trappings at will, to translate religious text as they prefer, and to trick others. Godly magic it is... in that it even works on thinking human beings but it does because no one wants to look in the hat, they're so mesmerized by the fantasy and the magician.

Just look in the dam hat.

Al, just answer me one question: who or what is the source of these problems you highlight?

angular dispersion, I like that

MAN is the answer....errrrr sourced resourcefully as he is want to be

Ain't that ironic dude?

Finally...we reach the root of it all...those filthy hooman beans!

Oh damn...you and i are hooman too...

ummm, rather pointless dispersion dontcha not think?


can't change that we're human but we can change that we don't follow santas and gods that do not exist.

As soon as you remove god, all the crap that controls others, feeds and fuels religious separtism is gone.

You are then left with pure unadulterated virtue, pure philosophy, pure curiousity. If there is one out there, this is the way to find it/him/her.

I thought you had resolved to be more of a people person this year?

'God' is just a label Al... do you accept that there is more to life that us?.. the Universe perhaps?.. for example... long before man even contemplated such a thing as 'God' and long before organised religion came into play.. man had a sixth sense of something 'out there' something greater than themselves.. it is this 'instinct' which led to the evolution of religion and the concept of deity...

While it is true that nobody can establish with any degree of scientific certainty the existence of what we have labelled 'God' I don't think it would be suitably 'open minded' (as u claim to be.. ) to exclude the possibility of same...

You refer in earlier posts.. too lazy to read them.. of this concept that knowledge is 'out there' and exists and it is this which Artists can tap into and create from (correct me if I am wrong) what is the source of this knowledge.. are you claiming that we.. us 'hooman beins' as Detente refers.. are we all that there is?...

Lets not forget that 'God' is just a label.. that feeling that people describe as 'faith' is just our instinct tapping into to that great unknown that mysterious something which we all sense is out there

Well, I don't know about all that other stuff, that is personal, but I do believe in Karma, I have seen it in action, so I don't think you can go wrong by living by the Golden Rule...

that is pretty telling of the lack of wisdom in beleiving because of its end result. I have no problem with things evolving until it fails the rabbit in the hat test. How many years do you keep staring at a hat, accepting that god is in there, before you go and have a look.


Had you read, I don't beleive I ever said that there is no possibility of god persay, in fact have said that there MAY be based on my own information and facts a god presence, though I do not have enough proof to state it unequivocaly. I have stated that is as 'close to the essence of referrals to god as I can find' .. not that it is god, label or otherwise. For me that label is energy

The knowledge to which I referred and you are now referring as being able to tap into ... is that same enegry. I will not label as god, without substantive proof, god-like because of its properties are equateable to the properties of god, sure.... but I can also tap into CNN that doesn't make it god, or even godly.

God as a concept, great, a concept leads you to search, a belief arrests your search, people stop looking beyond the god they god they know, such stringent belief holds you in its very nature to not search beyond what you believe. Stop beleiving there is a god and the whole universe opens up, it doesn't close down as you suggest or attempt to make me appear. We don't need a god to search, to learn, much less to choose good over bad behavior.

Maybe there is a god, maybe there's a whole soccer team of gods and that beleif is just as foolish as believing there is only one, or two or male or female.

I am open but not to 2000 yrs of unbeleiveable nonsense. Santa is just not there. I've looked in the hat, its you who refuses to do so. Just sayin, Orla, look in the hat.

Ok our beliefs are not entirely different then... but I think if you reduce most peoples beliefs to their instinctual or base elements.. what we are reduced to is similar in nature.. the labels are what confuses things... religion is incidental, spurned on by a more deep instinctual based inspiration..

my belief is that 'God' is energy based ...is present in each of us and connects us to the Universe.. but then I have always been a little wierd

Nope.
Actually it just happened that the Massacker took place on Valentine's Day.
Gangland Killings.Simply coincidental.
Only commonality is the date 14th of February.

Ok our beliefs are not entirely different then... but I think if you reduce most peoples beliefs to their instinctual or base elements.. what we are reduced to is similar in nature.. the labels are what confuses things... religion is incidental, spurned on by a more deep instinctual based inspiration..

my belief is that 'God' is energy based ...is present in each of us and connects us to the Universe.. but then I have always been a little wierd



Don't feel bad. You're not the only wierdo out there.

I tend to believe the same way you do.

Thank god for that !!

weird is good

conjecture is good

but 'belief' based on conjecture is just a tad ... foolish, especially since it has been conjecture for more than 2000 years..

Its this beleiving in a god that gives man the tools, weapons to control other men who beleive. Its not god, if there is one, its belief that strangles man and keeps hm in the dark ages. Men with evil purpose use and search out people who will beleive...

life is energy ... so is god life? is god energy? possibly, still looking in that hat. and why does it have to be labelled god? maybe its universal pea soup!

You're right, the label .. so get rid of it ... and whole range of possibilites come into play as well as a desire to look in more hats.