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Did you read this recently. It's amazing how there hasn't been much discussion about it in the weekly Presidential debates. Comments???

According to Yahoo News, France is the healthcare leader and the U.S. is last in a new study. France is first in providing timely and effective healthcare to its citizens. The study measured developed countries’ effectiveness at providing timely and effective healthcare. The study, conducted by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, looked at death rates in subjects younger than 75 that could have been prevented by timely and effective medical care.

The study showed that most countries preventable deaths decline by an average of 16 percent, while the United States shown only 4 percent. The Commonwealth Fund that financed the study showed alarm at the findings. The Commonwealth Fund Senior Vice President Cathy Schoen stated that "other countries are reducing preventable deaths more rapidly, yet spending far less."

The 19 countries, in order of best to worst, were: France, Japan, Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States.

Researchers stated that if the United States had performed as well as the top three industrialized countries, there would have been 101,000 fewer deaths per year. Ellen Nolte, lead author of the study, stated that “It is notable that all countries have improved substantially except for the United States"

Does this mean that in light of global warming and the world in decay from overpopulation, we're ahead in solving the problem?

I don't suppose that this study looked at how many of these deaths in the US could have been prevented by the individuals themselves. How many heart attacks in this country are preventable by making some lifestyle changes? Oh I forgot, I can do anything I want and the government should have to fix it for me since I refuse to.

Well that may be true to some degree Dave, but no one's life should have a dollar value attached to it. I'm all for capitalism, but not when it comes to my life.

Why should my tax dollars pay for someone elses healthcare?
I pay a really high premeum for mine and my families thru my work!

I refuse to pay some one elses!

This is my right of Democracy, to express m opinion!

There really seems to be some confusion as to what national health care is.

First of all, nothing and I mean nothing is free in this life.

Secondly. National health care is insurance everyone pays a tax or premium if you will, in this country it is payed by your employer. The funds pay for health care as it is needed. Everyone is included.

Thirdly. You may go many years without ever needed the system, but you still pay the premiums, just like your insurance plans you have now.

Fourthly. If at some point you contract a fatal illness, or a heart condition that will cost hudreds of 1000's of dollars you are covered too. And yes you will be able to still retire without giving your life savings to doctors, hospitals and insurance company's.


That in a nut shell is how it works. It's not perfect, but it works.

The plan I have right now is called an HSA. Over half of my premium goes into a savings account to cover my deductible, which is at $5000. If I don't need it, the savings portion keeps building and growing until I retire, then it becomes part of my retirement. It is a good incentive for me to do everything in my power to stay healthy.

I have a friend that has diabetes. He was a truck driver. When he was first diagnosed, a few lifestyle changes would have kept it under control. Two years later, it got worse and he is now on insulin. Since he now has to take insulin, he can no longer drive for a living unless he gets a waiver from the federal government. He has been trying to get that waiver for almost two years now. He hasn't worked in that time because he just wants to drive. He also hasn't done anything to change to a healthier lifestyle. He refuses to exercise and from what I can tell, He hasn't lost any weight.

I have a problem with any of my money going to care for someone that won't care for themselves.

I understand your point Dave, but insurance premiums are based on how much money the insurance company has to pay out, so you see, you are paying for it anyway.

A fair position Dave......unless you are a Christian

Why should my tax dollars pay for someone elses healthcare?
I pay a really high premeum for mine and my families thru my work!

I refuse to pay some one elses!


You already pay for someone else's healthcare with your tax dollars. Both Medicare(65 and older) and Medicaid(for children) are funded with taxpayers money.

I would have to agree with Tampa. It's not the perfect answer,but it's better than waht we have here now. Healthcare shouldn't be only for the "have's" and not the "have not's". I'm not advocating free government handouts to the entire country, far from it. From personal experience I know of someone who had to choose between his house or taking life saving medication to live. For someone to work their entire life(age 80) and have to make that choice is wrong, no matter how anyone tries to justify it.


Let me ask a final question. If you were on the other side, not having healthcare and one of your loved ones needed care would you have the same opinion? Would anyone here?

Just something to think about.

Well said UnluckyGuyinpa.

At least I am still getting my paychecks!

I am as a matter of fact. It is one thing to give money willingly for those less fortunate. It is far and away a completely different matter when you are forced to. Even the Bible says that if you won't work, you don't eat.

The problem Pete, is that far too many people abuse a system that they see as "free". My ex father-in-law has been collecting disability for over 20 years. From watching him work around the house, he wasn't disabled at all. He developed lung cancer a few years ago. He beat it after having a lung removed. His medical bills were probably close to $800,000. My tax dollars paid for that and are still paying for his oxygen machine and his monthly check. As far as I could see, the only reason he was collecting disability was that he just didn't feel like working anymore.

I'd be interested in hearing details from those who live in countries with national health care, about how their system works. (Please dumb it down for me in layman's terms.) AND how they feel about their healthcare system.

Yeah that is a problem with any system Dave, 800,000 grand huh? Wow! If that were you as a working man, you would be dead and broke, under the current US system.

Read up ^^^

Like I said it's not perfect, but it works usually. Like any system the more cash you put in the better it gets.

We are experiencing the privitization of a few hospitals in Canada, Let me say it is a complete disaster. As soon as you add profit to the mix, the whole system collapses.

It is a shame that our country seems to take care of and reward deadbeats over working men and women. I'm doing my best to have everything in place so as not to have to rely on the government for anything. I figure it is my responsibility to take care of myself and my family. If I fail to do that, then I can blame no one but myself.

Questions tampa...

Ok, so the way I understand it, everyone who works pays into the system via their employer? From taxes I assume?
What about people who don't work? How do they pay into the health care plan? Like people who work from home, farmers, people who are legitimately unable to work (like disabled), and just plain deadbeats who don't work?

Are there deductables to pay also? And if so, how are deductables decided? For instance, if a rich person and a poor person both go to the same doctor for the same thing, are their deductables the same?
I know some people here in America have health care, but the deductables are so high they might as well not have any coverage anyway.

Personally, I am more in favor of a national health care system than what we currently have in the US, but I don't feel informed enough to make a stand to say "Here's what we should do."

If the money for health care is taken out of the pocket of the working man via taxes and the deadbeat can get free health care, that really isn't a whole lot different than what we have here in America in the first place.
There are hard working people paying taxes, and premiums, and deductables. While there are deadbeats who don't work and get government issued medical cards to cover frivalous surgeries like liposuction.

I'm not against the upper class contributing to a certain extent to help the lowerclass per say, but not if the lower class is primarily a bunch of people who just aren't working because they are lazy, and are getting better health care than the upper class who are paying an arm and leg for less diverse health coverage.
Meanwhile, the middle class can't afford private insurance, but don't qualify for government assistance.

I'm wondering if Canada (or other countries) systems have overcome these dilemmas in their national health care systems.

I'm also curious about eye and dental care. Is that covered in the national health care?

Sorry so many questions... just trying to become more informed.

Yeah. No one likes to depend on the government, I actually dispise governments, but I am no fan of insurance companies either, who tend to be be great lobbyists.

yeh it's blullshit for the death rate...the government knows that the US. could be healthier but then they wouldn't make billions of dollars a year for not exploiting the truth.