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Al, I do actually agree with alot of the comments you make.
The ones that get me 'riled' involve subjective categorizations such as 'evil', 'not civilised', 'the slower evolution of SOME man'.......
I do know how bad it is out there, but I just don't necessarily regard this new-found 'political correctness' of the western world anythiing to boast or be proud of.We are totally part of the problem, imho....

Sorry for delay between posts.People keep phoning.

git me back? surely there must be some peaceful solution to all this

let's not let go of our ideals here trish


not my fault you're encased in polar ice and your tongue gets stuck to the screen when you stick it out at me.. take some realistic action for Brian's sake!

maybe you would like me to join this lot;

[a line of prisoners files past a jailer]
Coordinator: Crucifixion?
Prisoner: Yes.
Coordinator: Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each.
[Next prisoner]
Coordinator: Crucifixion?
Mr. Cheeky: Er, no, freedom actually.
Coordinator: What?
Mr. Cheeky: Yeah, they said I hadn't done anything and I could go and live on an island somewhere.
Coordinator: Oh I say, that's very nice. Well, off you go then.
Mr. Cheeky: No, I'm just pulling your leg, it's crucifixion really.
Coordinator: Oh yes, very good. Well...
Mr. Cheeky: Yes I know, out of the door, one cross each, line on the left.

actually, Im snug as a bug in a rug here - heating on full blast and the threatened snows havent actually happened yet - well, not stuck at least

But the best thing ever and something I look forward to every year - I found the first snowdrop of the year yesterday in the garden - spring is on the way folks

You're right, but the word evil is part of the quote that is under discussion. You may refer to it as bad or whatever you wish.

My subjective catagorizations are not of ALL man/woman. But I would definetely catagorize a great deal of what goes on as evil. Gassing people for instance is hardly just bad. Taking machetes and chopping off limbs, laughing at another human who is having this done to them and much more ... imho is evil, couching it euphemism does more harm. JMO

you are right I think and imo there are lesser forms that are not so evil, but defintely bad. Seeing them otherwise is a blinder. None of these things are civilized either so I am not quite sure what it is you want me to see on this..?

Slower evolution of some of man. Some humans are not quite there breeze. And not just dictators on the world front, there are also family leaders, church leaders, things very close to us who still resort to lower levels of communication (actual lack of communication) such as threats, violence, murder, torture both mental and physical. Some of man has not risen above this behavior and that id the crux of what I meant.

I agree that WE (man/woman) are totally THE problem.

In schools we don't teach behavior
In schools we don't teach negotiation
IN schools we don't teach ideals

I am not saying that math and history is useless, just that as man (WE) ignore the problem at large and say, we'll leave that up to parents, (teach your child ideal)some of which grew up in hellish environs. Sorry but they only teach how to create and exist in a hellish place. Failing that all we have, as trish has noted is the 'word' and to do our best to spread that word.

How can you say these things Al? Haven't you been paying attention? There is no such thing as "evil".

Al,
I'll have to get back to you tomorrow, hon....
Nose stuffed up, in the middle of another phone call, haven't even read your post properly.....
Night Trish and Al both

breeze

good exchanging with you .. be well

new life, an amazing time ... you'd love watching what goes on here, never stops really, always something respouting... strawberries twice a year creeping across the ground .. well there's bugs too

Good night Breeze I hope you feel better soon

strawberries twice a year!!!!!! - you're right, I would be in heaven

Evil neednt have the free reign that its enjoying at the moment - thats for sure

trying to facilitate without getting too hung up on greater/lesser definitions of words and labels.

If anyone wishes to call it something else, I 'm good with that. The label is not as important as the acts themselves. If we can find agreement on the 'acts' and not squabble over it's labels we have made some headway. I'd happily accept 'misdeeds' in leiu of 'evil' as long as we know the 'acts and behaviors' have to be dealt with, changed.

no sarcasm intended.

can't wait for the new dvd to come out.

time to eat folks, strawberries on the menu

Whens that Al?

Pancakes for me - not waiting for shrove tuesday (next week I think) followed by melon.


and finally folks...........................

Wise Man #1: We were led by a star.
Brian's mother: Led by a bottle, more like.



well, not finally but I do need to eat

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

A true statement, but it should not stand by itself. A few others that should be included in my humble opinion:

Beware the wolf in "sheep's clothing". There are many people proclaiming to do good who do evil instead.

When I was in my early 20's, we were at a friend's father and mother's ranch when his father said a similiar thing. If we allowed our politicians to do what ever they want, then evil will rule the world. He chastised for not wanting to get into politics or at least be involved with it.

It is funny how things creep up on us. We look back on history and ask how the Germans and Japanese could of condoned such acts or the brutality associated with Zimbabwe. But what about the "evil" being done in the name of "good" by our own government.

1) Whiteboarding - the use of putting a towel over someones face and drenching it with water so a person felt that they were drowning - not condemned by the person proposed to be the Legal representative of the American people?

2) US young women being raped and mutilated by our own security forces in Irag where the laws have been put in place so they do not face any legal issues. These "men or should I say animals" can commit a crime on a US woman serving her country and are protected by US law?

There have been statements about how "ideals" are not considered by our enemies. But this is the real destruction of a democracy, not from outside, but from within. If you forget what you are fighting for, then we have already lost.

Factual Munich.

So what do you do about these things and the overall problem in general. Pacifist, realist, anarchist, diplomat ?.. How do you deal with what you see in your own environment and in the world? Really interested in what sort of solutions people have on a personal level, even if that is speaking out enough to be heard. What are you fighting for that you shouldn't forget?

I started on this thread by reacting to comments being made.Perhaps I should have taken time to address the original post before now, which was:

''The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.''
It's basically urging 'good men' to do something in order to avert the triumph of evil, right?

So here I go.....

Firstly, I do actually believe there is evil - lots of it.And I also believe there is good.
As a general rule I prefer to label actions as good or evil,not necessarily individuals (although your run-of-the-mill Charles Manson, I agree, deserves the term) and I NEVER like to refer to whole races/ethnic groups as being 'evil' (I had the impression for most of this thread that we were in fact refering to nations).

Hitler has been refered to a couple of times in the thread (for obvious reasons).Funny thing is, if you'd asked Hitler what he thought of the quote in the OP, he would have probably agreed with it whole-heartedly.He was totally convinced he was a good man doing something as efficiently as he could to avert the triumph of evil, which he saw as being generated by the Jews.

Bush seems pretty convinced he is doing the right thing now in Iraq.

One thing seems obvious to me.....
Blood is the easiest thing to wipe away.It is the resentment for and the memory of the various brutal, violent ways of addressing what is regarded as wrong (or evil) that remains for generations and becomes the seed of future 'evil'.

On an individual level, over-the-top evil will always exist, I suppose, but I always thought that was what prisons (not the electric chair) were for......

I doubt that it is entire nations. But it can be large factions of nations, considering that people within it know how good or bad their intent is and their methods of carrying out that intent. It can also be single individuals and people like Mr Manson who inspired a small group to do some nasty things ... Johnstown and others. So not just nations, but people on any level.


He may have been disllusional, but I might add that were enough people outside who saw his behavior as evil, that it would be somewhat naive to think people within his nation at the time didn't see the evil in gassing people for religion, race and physical appearance. Wasn't there but I guess there can be some verity to people buying into a superiority complex, just as they would buy into religious superiority. Anyway enough people on the planet stood up to this to let everyone know that it is not an ideal held by most.



What happens if the US pulls out? Just MHO but if they do before real democracy takes hold, the country would be ripe for another Saddam. Hard to justify I know, but a lot of evil has taken root there, still inflicts murder and mayhem. So much so that I would bet that 90% of the worlds population couldn't tell you who the leader of that country is. Its so mirky now, things we'll never know about.


personally I think it is the very thing that feeds the ideal of peace. People pointing to it saying, "see what happens in war, we have had enough." But then I am far from this war in proximity and that in itself creates a bias on my part.

On an individual level, over-the-top evil will always exist, I suppose, but I always thought that was what prisons (not the electric chair) were for......

I appreciate the ideal there breeze. I am just not for that one. Prisons fill up, criminals seldom mend their ways (the more heinous of offenders). I am personally of the opinion that putting them down (extinguish) is the only way or as I have suggested before putting them all together in one place and let them all take each other out. I think innocent and civilized people lose out when evil is given more and more chances.