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Alex..everyone has a religion whether it has God in it or not..... I would say that as long as it is ok to beleive what you beleive it should be ok for others to use their "OWN" mind as well without being barrated for it.

Why would anyone want to remove this or any other category. Maybe we could be a little better about keeping the categories separate (I plead very guilty on this one myself) but if Trish and Eastbay Ray (where is he by the way?) and even the Gnome wish to debate the second coming or the theory of evolution at length then what harm to the rest of us. It is all opinion, knowledge and debate. Broadens the mind even if some of it is garbage.

I understand Trish's passion about refuting mistaken beliefs even if I couldn't be bothered myself. (Though some of your posts are so LONG Trish!!!) and I find it interesting to see the shifting coalitions of opinion between the American Patriot threads, the religion threads and the threads discussing Immigrants. It shows that you can't assume that someone who agrees with you on one issue will agree on another.

Keep the religion and politics and music in here or else we will all be reduced to talking about sex......the last thing you want on a dating site!


My biases listed below to save time:
(Pro-American, anti-Republican, pro-EU, non-believer, anti-gun, anti-death penalty, pro-woman, pro-State Health system, pro-legal immigrant, anti-illegal immigrant Francophile)

Hey Uli,what a lovely clever pic,hope you did't forget to ask everyone around to vote for that new pic....Lol
Well...I am sure you did't,you shuld ask my boyfriend again,maybe he will give you a sweet 10 this time...Lol
the sweet ,fat 10 you were asking the other day.....

After some consideration on removal as opposed to allowing to stay, I would have to say that removing it would only further increase the arrogant ignorance of the many that are actively opposed to any and all religions. More ignorance and more arrogance in maintaining the current levels of it or of increasing its spread would only be negative in the long run.
Religion per say, has been and still is, from the very first forming of any functioning society, anywhere, the provider of our social morals; our social behaviors and for the most part, most legal systems found around our world. How it was and is used is another matter entirely dependant of the frailty of "human nature"; those in search of personal power and riches over others at any one time, or the lack thereof...
Despite its various effects on societies over time, it remains generally as a civilizing influence the world over through history. Virtually all religions are of a monarchical nature; societies reflect that in their systems . It would be fair to say that societies that turn away from their religious roots and become more secular, the more unstable they become. Religious roots are directly tied to the most ancient of all our human institutions: a monarchy. Christianity is a monarchy , nothing else, but its practitioners no longer believe in reflecting that system in their governments save for a literal few. Their so called judicial systems to "democratise" everyone is a total failure in every respect as are the governments of the day. The levels of avarice, greed, corruption has in effect divided societies more than any monarchical system in history, despite all propaganda to the contrary with their never ending praise of "we is all equal!" rhetoric while fulfilling the empty and sacrireligious gestures of bended knee at the Sunday alter...
As Religion is entirely social, and still does affect most communities around the world, it is a vital force to be reckoned with. It is of the utmost importance to know not only one's own religion so as to reflect upon how to practice it that will be of a positive effect not only on you, but also on your community, be it a village or a small town; on your country as a whole. Harmony is the human goal; learning and reflection on its myriad ways of practicing it is a never ending process to build a better person, community and country with all citizens seeking the same. Personal learning is very difficult; time to reflect on one's self, let alone on others, in this type of society leaves almost no time at all; we must, for the most part, keep our collective noses to the grindstone to provide for our families, thanks to the system and the people that keep us working if we are lucky or to hold 3 part-time jobs to pay off our ever increasing debts....
We must also learn the religions of those around us who do not belong to the same "church"; to become understanding of their interpretation of "God". It expands our knowledge of all our neighbors on this planet. Many do not have the where-with-all to even learn their own, let alone learn of others who live in the same communities. Sad, very sad. Others refuse and so they and their intolerance for knowledge remain isolated from more and more peoples and thus does the ignorance, intolerance and eventual hatred take root...extremism is a virus and as most "sins" have a certain lure...they are attractive, so others want to try it...

part 2 cont.
In a secular society that chooses to maintain, to actually promote stupidity, to lower even further the general low levels of education and intelligence of the "general public", , there still exists the old adage of "Know thy enemy". If one wishes to go out and start killing the "others" or a specific other...one has to become knowledgeable about the target; their beliefs, their habits, all their routines, etc. etc. etc. for you to figure out the best possible time and place to kill them, whether you are on your own or as a govt. assassin You must be able at the very least blend into their lives, their communities. If they are religious, you must know it inside out to keep tabs on the target and perhaps take them out on Friday prayers...Knowledge, despite all its uses for potential positive or /and negative uses is still priceless, from any point of view. And who knows that in the end, one may decide that "other" is better and convert...%D but the collective "We" are still interconnected...and if you marry someone who does practice a religion, it certainly would be far more harmonious a relationship to understand it. Just as in "the Holy Land" where many married people are of one Faith, the other person , another Faith but they have overcome their social and religious outlooks to one outlook, they look at the world, at Life with Love...and all who know those that can are just more than a bit envious...

Deeply impressive comments Solitaire...fascinating and remarkably lucid for such a big piece.

Many thanks.

I still think it doesnt matter though....keep the thread because it is fun and allows free debate.

I dont think i gather entirely the deep meaning in the post .. but impressive as usual !!

We all should have it to , if nothing else, become aquainted with all of those that post on it. Detente said it well to reflect on all views in the end...debate must remain open to all for all %D Hallo Riya!!

In a secular society that chooses to maintain, to actually promote stupidity, to lower even further the general low levels of education and intelligence of the "general public", , there still exists the old adage of "Know thy enemy".

To my mind secular societies.....insofar as there are any completely secular societies.....are the ones that try to promote knowledge.

I acknowledge there is some truth in what you describe of the role of religions in societies ....or perhaps I mean part of the truth. Societies that lack a local dominant religion are often lacking in focus and purpose...that doesnt mean that societies with such a religion, focus and purpose are better....often they are worse. It would be a bit like my criticising Sweden for being purposeless compared to the old Soviet empire...which had purpose even if that were a bad purpose.

It is true that religion in society has sometimes over the centuries promoted and maintained education - but only the bits of education that suited its purposes and it actively suppressed the bits it didnt like. Know your enemy indeed - the Churches are not ALL bad. Just mostly bad in my view.

Keep up the debate!

I agree totally with the " learn about the religions around us and understand the ones who follow it " part !!!! Goodness .. esp. with people who follow their faith real sincerely, its almost a part of their personality and being !!!! Totally indispensable ..

Even that religion is required to maintain a sort of balance .. yes !!

The other side of the coin this is i suppose.

I agree to both cos as i agree to Solitaire's views .. most of the religion we speak about hasbeen distorted by people along the way .. misconstrued would be it. Even though religion is man-made .. what has become of it is either better ( rare cases ) or worse .. not the real essence of religion in the first place.

Solitaire also stated
" As Religion is entirely social, and still does affect most communities around the world, it is a vital force to be reckoned with. It is of the utmost importance to know not only one's own religion so as to reflect upon how to practice it that will be of a positive effect not only on you, but also on your community, be it a village or a small town; on your country as a whole. Harmony is the human goal; learning and reflection on its myriad ways of practicing it is a never ending process to build a better person, community and country with all citizens seeking the same "

a goal requiring persistent efforts to attain !!

"Alex..everyone has a religion whether it has God in it or not..... I would say that as long as it is ok to beleive what you beleive it should be ok for others to use their "OWN" mind as well without being barrated for it."






i totally agree, but look what happens, inevitably, humans show up ! lol


i have learned that my ideas are extremely provocative so now if i am intelligent, i will censor myself until i can create a real environment to exchange such important and heartfelt awareness. i am clumsy, but if i trip , please take it with humour and a grain of salt because in the big picture these things are insignificant, whatever i know or believe is constantly being influenced by new information, i actually don't long to have any answer anymore,. the journey is amazing enough.


so fine put religion in the forum threads , eventually they will balance out and with respect find a reasonable discourse, there will always be a wild card every so often to spice things up a bit...but generally they will become safe havens for those that share and enjoy the comraderie of the religious community they create...maybe they will even get dates !

but just for me personally... i don't have any attraction to it and if it starts to invade my world i find it very annoying,

luckily this is not my world
but people /humans are pretty predictable, you've been around here thru it all and have seen that this is a volatile subject , it is unlikely that people will remain objective all the time.

i'll avoid them, i promise

Trish,

I think your the greatest, will you marry me?

Religion, in its origins is about people, for people. If we are capable of learning, we can from all those that have precede us and are currently "running things" be they the proverbial "good, bad and /or ugly"...We all make our choices: "free will" as best we humans can choose. One can also look at it from the cynics point of view; any religion that has a God that promotes prosletising throough the sword, or out of a barrel of a gun, I'd say, "ok. Watcha got, show me your religion and I'll convert..." Many over the ages have taken this route to stay alive. It's only expedience, but the immediate goal is to survive, who in the hell cares what the religion of the year is...I hope that we are past that stage of development; same for the secular anti or equality promoters, putting all religions, all peoples on the lowest common denominating scale possible. Secularism is just as much a "religion" as one with a religious theology based origin as not.
While secularism seems to promote knowledge it is of a nature that often offends more peoples than not, It is as inflexible as any theocratic society. Inflexibility, either general or selective is a usual hallmark of societies dominated by religious ideologies. The more simple the beliefs, the more quickly people act and most times simple beliefs are wrong, as in believing in good and evil, or right or wrong; they are relative terms in today's world. Is it wrong? Depends on that societies definitions. It is never easy. If "we" don't like an other's definitions, war is at hand; war is inevitable as an continuing historical solution. It is the old repetition of "when peace fails is when war becomes inevitable" gambit. The same in reverse is not a proposition whose inverse is true. When war fails, there is only total destruction, or exhaustion, but never peace, except for the terms imposed by the winner, and that is not peace in the truest sense of the word, because peace implies an equality...at least a reciprocity that offers a promise of future equality. Peace is a situation where societal conflicts are resolved through non military accommodations. When those conflicts cannot be resolved, war becomes inevitable. Some societies , some religions cannot compete in nonmilitary terms, but it also occurs within highly technological societies as well, that have been rebuffed by by cultures who do not wish to accept what they regard as values or customs or other societal aspects of dubious value or the lack of any meaningful value. What many ignore is that is that information and technology possess values on two separate levels...those of symbolism and those of effective application. Exceedingly or even moderately advanced technology does not always ensure a triumph by its possessor. Such victories are assured only when the effectiveness of applications exceeds that of lesser technology. Great military leaders have understood both the practice and symbolic value of technology that appeared strikingly advanced. Many have taken to the strategy of preemptive strikes to preclude the development, deployment and application of advanced technologies. In some cases, the preemption was and is merely to prevent a polity from using that technology as a symbol of power, while in others, the technologies would have posed a threat to the polity making the preemptive strike...
Some theocratic societies have evolved to the point of being able to integrate technology into their religious limited society. They are there for those who have tired of the unstable open societies and their faiths have and do give those stability, and peace of mind which is very hard to find in totally open societies that seem always on the bring of utter chaos.

alex and i agree

its humans

the thread was started as a joke
as i kept telling "someone" to complain to the mods
instead of the members-over and over-lol
especially since they allow the categories, not us.

it continued to be funny when people voted get rid of em
but only the tiniest amount voted
"get rid of emand im willing to give my opinion to the mods"

its hilarious because so many of these types of threads and polls
discussing "regulating" threads have been popping up
the last week or so

this was a parody poll



ive no opinion either way on any categories
its none of my business-im a guest here.

oh i did want to say i found it a surprise and a bit hurtful
the remarks about "at least i know who to avoid"

and its interesting to notice it was not said
by the so-called thumpers...

as a believer it bums me out that i would be avoided
for my own private relationship-but oh well
we all make choices based on some criteria i guess

i have agnostic atheist buddhist muslim hindu catholic
pagan wiccan etc etc etc friends

we are able to be intimate, be real, trust each other...

anyone who passes me over w/o getting to know me
is losing out-haste makes waste...

My opinion on the orginal question - ban a category ? Er, no thanks. I'm all for free speech, and sweeping something under the carpet, no matter how old or smelly, won't help anybody. If you don't like what you see on the tv you're always free to change the channel and the same works here. It can also be fascinating to hear the different views and try to understand them, plus this being a dating site it can also be very informative

Ah, Mike, Hi of course I will marry you darling


but only if we decide to let the children decide the religion issue for themselves at an age of 'reason' and possibly more importantly, to teach them that opinions are 'subjective' - and everybody has em

is the wedding still on or is this the shortest engagement in history?

i will be the flowergirl???