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been there, and many other places; so scary some would rather not beleive, others do and are taking up the charge and you can judge for yourself through some open minded research.



cloud!

I don't see it as a face, but an aspect of eugenics. By calling it a face you automatically make all sorts of connections b/w different eugenic philosophies that are not necessarily there.

My use of baby factories was a reference to genetic manipulaton, I guess i missed your point there. But as for social responsibility, the paradox here that the people who realize that social responsiblity, the ones most responsible and intelligent stop reproducing and our governments do everything possible to encourage the irresponsible ones to reproduce. Preventing that from happening is part of eugenics.

Fine, this thread is about different things. My point is that it's just too much about the most common misconceptions, speculations and blanket statements. I know I shouldn't be expecting much more, one reason being that the general public is not interested in discussing but commenting on the subject du jour - eugenics. (this is CS Lounge, after all). Still, that's the way it is. Research? So far, the only research I see your posts coming from is "Conspiracy Theory Association of America" Why didn't you post any of those resources in the beginning? I'm sure people would gladly take a look rather than speculate about how rich are out to get them and their kids.



riyablossom -> I agree, the test tubes baby aspect of eugenics is more than concerning. My only question is, how big of a concern it really is nowadays? I don't believe people who go up in arms and invent 10 conspiracy theories when a secret society has a meeting.

j goose -> I said:"Obviously, I'm not going to write an eugenics essay here as I don't know enough on the subject"

you said: "why post at all?"

Simple. Anything else than "writing an essay". This couldn't be clearer. I only posted to point out that, while eugenics is definitely a subject for discussion, there's no point in wondering when rich will castrate the poor, nuke us all or other such nonsense.

Worryingly........

Looking around at the state of the world, it makes sense to me too.
The planet IS over populated.
There are very 'worrying' problems that 'culling'would be the most 'natural' solution to. We really have strayed from the 'laws of nature', we have made OUR 'life at any cost' a priority in our society. I wonder sometimes if we have enough perspective. I can't help but see my own self as a very small, insignificant, ephemeral thing. It would be nice if I were culled in a 'humane' way of course, but otherwise.......I have no better solutions myself. It's the reason people will stand by and let things happen, if they do.
We seem to have stuffed up pretty badly so far, anyway........

The idea does make me too, on a practical level,of course.

The history of mankind on this earth sometimes seems to be made up of a series of atrocities.......
always in some corner of the world something real bad is going down.

Does this include cloning too. Once they have the superior people then they will just continue to clone them, over and over again.

yep.... I've heard about those tooo

scary-.... scary..... even scarier than that guy with the moustache

[quote=BullitBoyPL]

riyablossom -> I agree, the test tubes baby aspect of eugenics is more than concerning. My only question is, how big of a concern it really is nowadays? I don't believe people who go up in arms and invent 10 conspiracy theories when a secret society has a meeting.

It was a comment just like the genetic manipulation aspect that you mention. This is something that i feel concerned about. Nonetheless i agree with you.



Simple. Anything else than "writing an essay". This couldn't be clearer. I only posted to point out that, while eugenics is definitely a subject for discussion, there's no point in wondering when rich will castrate the poor, nuke us all or other such nonsense.[/quote

sorry .. but i post to the best of my knowledge and go back and read up and research on what people post if it interests me. Definitely, essay writing is a waste of space and time .. no where on my priorities and i wouldnt post even if that were the case.

Thankyou anyways.

Well this is an opinion and I respect that. Since eugenics can go in so many different tangeants I won't begin to conclude any outcome, let alone steering of the discussion, beyond facilitating it, save to answer others and their opinions, including my one thoughts of which some are pro and con. My research doesn't come from that website(but thanks, I'll have a look) it comes from several, including the one you mentioned in your first post that I have been to , as I like to see all sides of the issue or as many as I can get my hands on.

Quoting websites is not allowed so I don't that. Though names and groups are spoken, including many on either side of the issue as you may or may not have noticed. I like to be aware, to find out as much as I can and sometimes that awareness comes from discussion. Conspiracies or not, it has as much value either way in disucssion... and to dismiss it summarily without consideration would be unwise, as it would to dismiss your views of how 'modern' eugenics is.

So you can quote webpages or post your opinion on the subject matter, or any tangeant anyone chooses to take, though I think the web addys will get your post deleted (just guessin)

This was what i posted and meant!!

"We need not send our Nation rocketing into levels of intelligence which surpass current human maximums. We need only take small steps to ensure that man has the capacity to fulfill the requirements of the world in which he lives, and, more importantly, to reason. As it is now, man is right where his elite masters want him.smart enough to obey, but not smart enough to think for himself. I am dissatisfied with this circumstance. Are you?"

those are not my words but from a eugenics website.

smart enough... to research?

I don’t know a lot about the subject of eugenics, or the various depths it goes into, and I doubt your “average joe” really understands either. But as an “average joe” I stand back and see some of the information on eugenics and it rather makes some sense to some degree.

I’ve seen people here, and on websites, and in classrooms, and on television, discuss a particular aspects of eugenics. That aspect being coerced sterilization of the underclass. I’ve seen people on BOTH sides of this debate repeatedly use the phrase “people who want to have 4, 6, 8 kids”. That phrase makes me scratch my head. WANT TO? I don’t believe these underclass women, most especially teenage girls, are making a conscious decision to copulate based on WANTING to have a litter of children.

I’ve worked with adjudicated juveniles from every angle of the system, and if you asked these pregnant teenagers if they WANTED to have children, most of them would say NO. A good majority of these girls didn’t even participate in sexual activity for the sake of physical pleasure. Most of them were looking for a feeling of love and acceptance between the bed sheets that they were unable to obtain at home from their parents. When confronted with a situation where they had the opportunity to feel loved by a man in the form of sexual intercourse, all rationality became null. If he said something as slight as “It feels better without a condom.” then by all means, she would not insist on a condom because she wanted to please him and make him happy so that he in return would continue the sex act, hence making her feel that false sense of love and acceptance. Many of the underclass women and teenage girls who are having all these children aren’t doing so because they “want” kids. These babies are the CONSEQUENCE of intercourse, not the reason for it.

The birth control, in many, many areas, is fully available, well advertised, and free of charge. It’s simply being declined. Whether it’s declined for the reason above, or it’s declined because they can’t be bothered to pop a pill each morning, or because they don’t seek it out, or whatever reason, the fact remains that the underclass often CHOOSE to decline birth control.

With this in mind, it makes some of us “average joes” stand back and wonder if coerced sterilization may be a valid alternative.
We have a sector of society who act irresponsibly, refuse personal accountability, don’t heed the consequences of their actions, wallow in codependence, and generation after generation reproduce at an alarming rate regardless of their inability to care for their young. They each in turn, pass on these same values to their children, who 12 years later go out and continue the cycle.
Meanwhile, people who are making responsible choices, thinking through their actions, delaying gratification, implementing the available birth control (often at a higher cost), and holding themselves personally accountable for their young, are expected in various ways, to take up the slack for the prior group.

The specific branch of eugenics that promotes coerced sterilization to particular high-risk groups, can easily come to be seen a valid option, when other options, such as public education and free distribution of birth control is outright ignored by a class of irresponsible people who are reproducing at double and triple the rate of a class of people who are taking accountability.

I’m not saying it’s an option which does not include controversial issues. But I don’t think it’s an option that can be completed dismissed at this point.
It’s an ugly elephant in the room.

1st,solitare I want to thank you for the info on books.2nd I am 1st to admit this subject I know little about and never heard the word before to bst of memory.Reading thread in beginning thought riht off of Hitler.Then I read so much more involved.I am always thirsty for info.After I hear or read it,then I choose to accept it or disregard.I sm going to look for the books solitare mentioned as well as ask librarian of any others on subject.I will google eugenics also.This subject has intriqued me.No one has mentioned cloning here.Does it not fit in with eugenics in any way?I am glad to see a serious disscusion on an idea where wecan learn from one another.The only subject I have seen that is seriously discussed in threadsthat is real and may affect us as humans is the war.I am first to admit I like word games and getting silly in threads at times.However these types of discussion are appreciated.Back to the cloning,does it fit n anywhere here?

Again I agree, for the most part we are looking at symptoms, not causes. Eugeincs in the right hands can straighten this out. Tweaking intelligence enough to do away with 'emotional' driven decisions, to highten awareness of the mind etc.. Even a parent with a higher IQ does more to make sure their child avoids the scenarios you speak of. There are statistics to support that people with higher IQ's have less accidents, drink less, live longer and a host of other related qualities. (aside from their inherited genetics of course)

Eugenicists see these elephants and want to do something about it. Some are ethical proponents of the cause, some are not. In its truest sense -eugenics is compassionate.

GNDM

Anything that proposes to better the human condition is part of eugenics I think, including cloning sheeple

Cloning is whole subject on its own as I suppose are many aspects in eugenics. Improving the human genome can take so many tangeants. Don't know much about cloning of humans but i do know that cloning of tapes, or cds creates generational loss. Don't know if that applies to humans or other living organisms as well.

GMO's might also be part of this. (genetically modified organisms) done mostly with plants, even strawberries I hear

not how small you are but how small you think you are. There are people taking steps, is it too late? I don't know.

There is a lot of issues to wade through in life.. We learn best from our mistakes I think. Most aren't even aware at a level of ... 'holy shyte, this DOES suck" .. apathy tends to rule the day, because of mortgages etc... The real difference happens when you finally realize whats going on (because now you know) and start taking your own steps to cleaning up some of the mess.

I can't beleive you just asked george to cull you breeze..

Anytime I think about, or the subjects of Eugenics, Embryonic Stem Cell Technology, Cloning or any other form of "fixing" come up, I always feel sad and remember a particular verse of Poetry:

To her fair works did Nature link
The human soul which through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think,
What man has made of man.

William Wordsworth 1798.

JMO.

US---Russia--- China -eugenics--- and 'all the above"

if the human race is going to survive itself some one had better do something. we seem to become more barbaric with each generation and tech advancement.

Individually---Organics and the Natural lifestyle may be the only way of protesting against 'The New World Order"

-the other way could be through using wealth within these principles
--- Bill Gates(and his mates) instead of seeking self actualization (Maslow) through his drop in the ocean charity attempts could encompass and make a real difference

--- "The Revolution"-- seeking freedom/care for the planet of the sixties has become fragmented where it should be connected

Our Prime Minister has just said "Sorry" to our indigenous people-- for mishaps of our forefathers--- perhaps more sorrys in the world with followups can be a catalyst for new more pure beginnings

good post sis!

Without differences we become all the same.

Hard to improve on nature, but to fix the mistakes man has made in his attempts to improve himself, (or screw others over) that would be worth the effort. A restoration of nature's intentions.

To be rid of aids, cancers and chemical disasters, all things that man has brought upon himself. If only.