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I saw this on the net this morning.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Monday backed the Bush administration's policy of shunning contact with the Islamic militants of Hamas in its Middle East peace diplomacy. He said "You can't negotiate with somebody who does not recognize the right of a country to exist so I understand why Israel doesn't meet with Hamas,"

Obama has said in the past he would be willing to meet with leaders with whom the Bush administration strongly disagrees, including Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Yet, Iran does not recognize Israel either and Ahmadinejad has often threatened the imminent destruction of the Jewish state.

How is this different? How can one negotiate using a standard which is not applied equally to all? Both Ahmadinejad and Hamas representatives have been elected into their positions and are recognized by their respective countries.

Hi Sparkey
I am sure Mr Obama is aware a bout the very important matter of the right for the state of Israel to exist. Israel eksists and that is a great happening in human history and a good result after so many terrible things happened in Europe during the first and the second world war caused by racism and stupiditiy.

Some how Bush and his alikes will never ever being able to make a real conversation and cooporation a bout this matter with arab countries and with Hamas and with the islamic regim in Iran because these Bush kinds just have no idea how to talk with others in the right way.

Just imagine how stupied Bush and his administration has handled Russia and China since they ook over.

Bush administration has done one stupied thing after the other according to the matter of Taiwan and because of that matter China is angry and building its military up intensivley and actually they are already much better than americans even when it is a bout shooting old satelites down...using one rocket instead of three and using a couple of millions instead of more than 75 million dollers , and beside that China from behind the sceans supporting both Iran and Sudan and I North Corea and Hamas and Hizbollah and so on just because of the very wrong politics Bushney,s has done form the very begining!

Russia is angry as well because Bush wants to make rocket stations all around Russia and by that humiliating this super power and looking down toward them and acting like: You are not no body any more Mr Putin and the result is the same ....Russia behind the sceans cooporating with China and with Iran and with Hamas and with Hizbollah and you name it they do it.......all because Bush is not just made to communicate at all!
All he knows is that a revolver can kill and he does not know that kiling is not ok all the time and some body else just might have a bigger gun one day! Russia has also builted up its military intensivly and they have developed bigger bombs than ever before and the most cooporation with the US has just stopped!

continues.......

..............The way Bushney,s "communicated" with Iran and with palestinians and all those were exactly the same and all the time guns became bigger and one attack after another and this is not right way of communicating at all! Men are men and both americans and particulary the middle easterns are proud men and they dont want to show fear and therfor the fight goes on and on as long as men like Bush and definately men as MacCain deciding the way of communication.

Obama is able to make these people accept the great need for accepting the rights of Israel as a nation and he is able to do that with out closing eyes on Israel,s killing of plaestinians or the rocket bombardement from palestinian side daily. He is able to push israelis stop this stupied game and make them recognise the right of Hamas as well when the organisation was voted in by the votes of at least 70 procent of the palestinian population! Israel can simply not continue this ignoration and one day they have to accept this and stopping this bull shit of only negotiating with Abbas whom has not much poularity any way...actually Abbas,s rate of popularity amoung palestinians is as low as Mr Bush,s poularity amoung americans! Bush has the power any way unfortunatily and Abbas has not at all, and his being on power is very artificial and based on non eksisted bases actually.

Remember how Israel "negotiated" with poor late Arafat? Bombing his compund and at last all he had was two rooms and a couple of computers and a non working telephone....and then he died in a still mystichal way! All that I beleive was because Bushney way of communication and nothing else.

During Clinton ....he made them give hands to each other and the first real palestinain state became reality and that is what America can do if some body as wise as Obama is on power....he is simply able to make people Talk to each other and he knows how to use his power with out killings and bombings and torturing and raping people to obey!

Come now, this wasn't a thread about Bush. This was a thread exposing Obama's apparant double standard.

To refresh your memory, the question is why is it OK for Obama to speak or negotiate with Ahmadinejad but he refuses to talk with the Hamas leadership stating that he would not do that because "You can't negotiate with somebody who does not recognize the right of a country to exist"????? Hasn't Ahmadinejad publically declared more than once that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth and that he does not recognize their right to exist?

You even make a similar point when you say "He (Obama) is able to push israelis stop this stupied game and make them recognise the right of Hamas as well when the organisation was voted in by the votes of at least 70 procent of the palestinian population!" How is he going to do this if he refuses to negotiate or speak with Hamas?

Doesn't this bring up concerns as to Obamas understanding of what is happening or has he simply chosen to look the other way with Iran for some unknown reason?

You are very good about sharing the virtues of Obama, perhaps you could clear this up without changing the subject.

if the other threads about him are not exhausted, why start more?

The others were too flowery, I'm trying to get an answer on his policy and the reasons behind it.

ok

Thanks for understanding Cristina. I know these things can get somewhat tedious... Take care now...

"take care now"

never mind

Sometimes I just say that when ending a conversation on a good note... See ya...

im surprised
that was seemingly a dismissive comment at the least
and too be rude regarding other threads?
does flowery mean well fleshed out and neutral
or maybe just informative?
is something a bit more on the offense or assertive maybe
really more compelling and not flowery?
id really like to know
and i am asking the source.

there are at least 2 threads i can think of that include posts by thinking, articulate people. i think you may be on some of them?
i never heard anyone dislike anything you had to say there.

i would also say its generally suggested that when
a post such as this is an inspiration for discussion-anywhere-
a battery of complaints can ensue regarding
not noting the source

in response to the remark as to wanting to learn more?

wow

i never consider such a forum a possibility of learning facts.


theres aLOT of info out there and in here (internet)

take care now and other things said to say goodbye
are usually said after person one indicates they are leaving.
unless person 2 is being a smarty pants

and you just did it again

im so disappointed

I dont know much more than my own personal meanings and beside what I hear from others and what I have seen happening in the last years in world. Other than those I have not much idea a bout how people on power are going to do things and why.

There is just some thing telling me very strongly that Obama will talk with Hamas and he will see that is necassary and impossible not to.

you know Sparkey as a matter of "very" fact......Ahmadinejad and Hamas and Hizbollah they are all the same and the head of both these organisations which were born because israeli occupation kept continuing with out real hopes a bout the feauter, is Islamic republic of Iran.

Obama knows this very well and therfor he does not have to talk too much a bout whom he is going to talk with right now....Get Ahmadinejad and Khamneii the real leader of Iran,s accept then you will get them all! Bushneys knowing this as well but their retoric is totaly differnet and they just keep shouting at iranians and treatening them and clsing their eyes when Israel kills the palestinians and helping them doing so with no doubt at all!

This is not too complicated at all you know? A desperate life situation in Palestinian land makes people choose the organisations whom are really helping them with food and medicin and health and housing and jobs and any thing else possible during this huge embargo they have been suffering from in years ....and in the middle of this Iran saw the great possibility to gain support and then Iran made Hizbollah of Libanon and then strengthen Hamas and now they own both these groups!

Obama as told knows this well , and I bet he has a good plan how to settle the situation down and he has an advantage others do not have and that is his hands are clean of blod .....in the middle east people dont forget goodness or the opposite and thats how old civilisations making people to be.

Obama does not have to talk much a bout how his plans in details are because maybe some body else grabs those and making those his own. He has to be some how quiet a bout the details until he is certain a bout presidency and then you will see real positive changes in the matter of peace in the middle east, sooner than any body thinks possible.

While Obama did indeed make that very statement, certainly you are wise enough to understand there is a significant difference between a general policy and a specific one. Like every administration, these sorts of policies are ever changeing. A sincere diplomatic effort can change the senerio enough that a change of policy is in order, much like we will certainly see in Cuba once the elder Castro has departed.

No doubt, if Hamas where to extend a fig leaf to Israel there would be all sorts of diplomatic efforts to capture the moment and attempt to build on that very effort. I haven't heard the other presidential hopefull's take a contrary position, so perhaps in this case Obama feels a more unified position will send a message to Hamas that waiting for the "next president" might not be the best approach and perhaps they need to begin negotiations sooner rather than later.

The world of diplomacy will always be in a constant state of flux. Woe is the politician that crosses their arms and refuses to bend with the times......

When you read some of the Threads about Obama,you get the Impression that he is a Demi-God with all the abilities ascribed to him.
Please people stay with Reality to some Degree.Hmmm?

Hi Sparky....if you want an answer on his attitude to foreign affairs....look no further....there is an article published by THE COUNCIL OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS.....and written by BARACK OBAMA.....it is called "RENEWING AMERICAN LEADERSHIP" .....here's the link... http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070701faessay86401/barack-obama/renewing-american-leadership.html

It's very enlightening and far better to get it straight from the horses mouth than biased hearsay on the internet !

It will be interesting to know what you think of the article....

You too Dude !

Mindful,

I really don't know where you're coming from with this. Are you trying to say I said that to be rude or dismissive? If that's what you thnk, you're mistaken. Please feel free to preuse any of my posts and you will see I have used that term many times in the past.

Also, if you do look at my posts you will find that when I wish to be pointed or rude I am very clearly pointed and rude and no guessing is required.

As for the other post (if it was intended for me) I did use the word flowery becasue most of the other Obama threads are very flattering towards him. I wanted to look at him from a different perspective.

I must admit I am somewhat surprised by your response here. If you have questions by all means ask but please don't pass judgement or become disappointed based on what you think I am thinking.

Thanks, I'll do that. Probably will be back to you tomorrow. It's a bit late here and I need my beauty sleep soon.

Thankyou for an intelligent and thoughtfuly post !