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Some friends suggested me to have a thread about Iran. As I think there are many misunderstanding about Iran, I accepted. Therefore I started this thread. I think as somebody who is Persian and have seen Iran's Revolution and its aftermaths till now, with his own eyes, I could give suitable information to the people who are interested. I humbly ask the people who want to enjoy and make joke of everything, do not take part in this thread. Because this is a very serious thread and there is no place for joke. There are few that do not like me and make joke of me. I ask them to do not do that. I am not native, and it is natural that I have some problems in my English. Please try to ignore these mistakes, but if I am unclear, I can describe the matter again! I hope we could have a good thread without tension today!

I think it is necessary to say these things first. After Revolution in Russia in 1917, England decided to surround Soviet Union from every side. Therefore Reza Shah with a Coup took power in Iran. The same happened in Turkey (Ataturk), Afghanistan (Aman ullah Khan), Iraq and some countries in Europe. The Agenda was rebuilding these countries and make them safe and secure in front of Communism. After A while Reza Shah did not accept to obey English in every way. He remained in Power until England, America and Soviet Union occupied peacefully Iran in WWII. Reza Shah was exiled by English and his son, Mohammad Reza Shah replaced him. For 12 years from 1941 till 1953 we had democratic governments in Iran. After the War Russians wanted to continue occupation of Iran, but Harry Truman threatened them to use nuclear weapon against Russia and Russia was obliged to empty Iran. Shah did not have any Power. In 1951 Dr. Mossadegh became prime minister of Iran. He decided to nationalize oil which was plundering by English! 2 years challenge! Dr. Mossadegh convicted English in the International Court in the Hague. England encircled Iran from Persian Gulf ways and did not permit Iran to sell its oil. Americans supported Iran, and they suggested Iran share half&half by English, But Dr. Mosadegh made a mistake and did not accept. English convinced Americans about a Coup against Mosadegh! Americans somehow were obliged to accept. Coup happened in 1953, Dr. Mossadegh was sent to Jail and Shah took power again. He started to become a dictator. 1n 1960 Americans obliged him to have great reforms in Iran and he did. Iran started to progress and around 70ties we were one the richest countries in region and the world. Our Army was the fifth power in the world. Shah made a mistake again. He interfered in America's election in 1976 against Jimmy Carter. He won the election and asked Shah to open the Society of Iran. Liberal powers were destroyed by Shah beforehand. This open Society gave time to religious powers to rise against Shah. Jimmy Carter did not support him and let him go. Shah Was mentally a weak man from the beginning of his life unlike his father. BBC played a great role to MAKE an Revolution in Iran and Shah collapsed and Mullahs took power! And it was 11th of February 1979! AND ISLAMIC FOUNDEMENTALISM STARTED IN THE WORLD!

Thanks for posting this Longbird. Iran has been somewhat isolated since the early 80s. With the way things are today it seems as though we are closer than we have ever been to armed conflict. What does the average person on the street in Iran think about the current political situation there? I wonder if there is as much dissatisfaction felt there as is felt by many in the US with our current foreign policy.

I have heard rumor and guesses but as someone who is there, perhaps you can give some on the ground insight.

The last I heard Sparky, the average person on the street could get locked away in prison without a trial for so much as sneezing in front of the wrong person. Many academics have been disappeared too if Im not mistaken.

Great thread and thanks for the information Longbird

Hi Trish,

I have heard the same. I have also heard from several people who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another that there is wide spread dissatisfaction with the government, wide spread poverty which Longbird mentioned. I was also surprised to hear about wide spread drug usage.

Anyway, I'm hoping someone a little closer to the actual area can shed some more light on this.

I would guess Iran is much the same as other countries in that the people by and large are pretty good and it's just the assanine decisions of government which cause most of the problems.

Later...

I am very glad you started this thread, Longbird.

It is obvious that we need a first hand opinion of Iranian people on what's going on in REALITY in Iran.

It is always better to listen to a native people than to listen to all media bullshit that is absolutely corrupted and gives an information suitable to ... who PAYS more ( because jornalists and reporters and other employees needs to be paid)


I do understand perfectly you being not an English speaking ( I am originally Russian)


Take your time ... all right?

HAve a look on Reuters web site Sparky, theres much to be found there and all over the net - i was trying to find a video, theres some good ones by Noam Chomsky on the Iran issues to be found on utube - but I am out of time here and have to rush off for now.

I think you are so right about the "assinine decisions of governments"


laters...............

Here is what I wanted to share (since Russian Imperia, USSR and Russia have beenpresented in Iranian life since 18 century)


THE TEHRAN CONFERENCE, NOVEMBER 28-DECEMBER 1, 1943
(a) Declaration of the Three Powers, December 1, 1943
We the President of the United States, the Prime Minister of Great Britain, and the Premier of the Soviet Union, have met these four days past, in this, the Capital of our Ally, Iran, and have shaped and confirmed our common policy.

We express our determination that our nations shall work together in war and in the peace that will follow..

As to war-our military staffs have joined in our round table discussions, and we have concerted our plans for the destruction of the German forces. We have reached complete agreement as to the scope and timing of the operations to be undertaken from the east, west and south.

The common understanding which we have here reached guarantees that victory will be ours.

And as to peace-we are sure that our concord will win an enduring Peace. We recognize fully the supreme responsibility resting upon us and all the United Nations to make a peace which will command the goodwill of the overwhelming mass of the peoples of the world and banish the scourge and terror of war for many generations.

With our Diplomatic advisors we have surveyed the problems of the future. We shall seek the cooperation and active participation of all nations, large and small, whose peoples in heart and mind are dedicated, as are our own peoples, to the elimination of tyranny and slavery, oppression and intolerance. We will welcome them, as they may choose to come, into a world family of Democratic Nations.

No power on earth can prevent our destroying the German armies by land, their U Boats by sea, and their war plants from the air.

Our attack will be relentless and increasing.

Emerging from these cordial conferences we look with confidence to the day when all peoples of the world may live free lives, untouched by tyranny, and according to their varying desires and their own consciences.

We came here with hope and determination. We leave here, friends in fact, in spirit and in purpose.

ROOSEVELT, CHHRCHILL and STALIN

Signed at Tehran, December 1, 1943

WINSTON S. CHURCHILL
J. STALIN
FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT

to be continue ........

Signed at Tehran, December 1, 1943

(b) Declaration of the Three Powers Regarding Iran, December 1, 1943
The President of the United States, the Premier of the U. S. S. R. and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, having consulted with each other and with the Prime Minister of Iran, desire to declare the mutual agreement of their three Governments regarding their relations with Iran.

The Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom recognize the assistance which Iran has given in the prosecution of the war against the common enemy, particularly by facilitating the transportation of supplies from overseas to the Soviet Union.

The Three Governments realize that the war has caused special economic difficulties for Iran, and they are agreed that they will continue to make available to the Government of Iran such economic assistance as may be possible, having regard to the heavy demands made upon them by their world-wide military operations, and to the world-wide shortage of transport, raw materials, and supplies for civilian consumption.

With respect to the post-war period, the Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom are in accord with the Government of Iran that any economic problems confronting Iran at the close of hostilities should receive full consideration, along with those of other members of the United Nations, by conferences or international agencies held or created to deal with international economic matters.

The Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom are at one with the Government of Iran in their desire for the maintenance of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iran They count upon the participation of Iran, together with all other peace-loving nations, in the establishment of international peace, security and prosperity after the war, in accordance with the principles of the Atlantic Charter, to which all four Governments have subscribed.

WINSTON S. CHURCHILL
J. STALIN
FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT

(c) Military Conclusions of the Tehran Conference
The Conference:-

(1) Agreed that the Partisans in Yugoslavia should be supported by supplies and equipment to the greatest possible extent, and also by commando operations:

(2) Agreed that, from the military point of view, it was most desirable that Turkey should come into the war on the side of the Allies before the end of the year:

(3) Took note of Marshal Stalin's statement that if Turkey found herself at war with Germany, and as a result Bulgaria declared war on Turkey or attacked her, the Soviet would immediately be at war with Bulgaria. The Conference further took note that this fact could be explicitly stated in the forthcoming negotiations to bring Turkey into the war:

(4) Took note that Operation OVERLORD would be launched during May 1944, in conjunction with an operation against Southern France. The latter operation would be undertaken in as great a strength as availability of landing-craft permitted. The Conference further took note of Marshal Stalin's statement that the Soviet forces would launch an offensive at about the same time with the object of preventing the German forces from transferring from the Eastern to the Western Front:

(5) Agreed that the military staffs of the Three Powers should henceforward keep in close touch with each other in regard to the impending operations in Europe. In particular it was agreed that a cover plan to mystify and mislead the enemy as regards these operations should be concerted between the staffs concerned.

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
JOSEPH V. STALIN
WINSTON S. CHURCHILL

TEHRAN, December 1, 1943

I wish White House will read it first before they decide to invade Iran.



Longbird Could you tell me more about USA-Iranian relationship nowadays. Why do you think USA so eager to invade Iran?

I think that we would have had a better world to live in if each and every one of us would open up a few History books and read through.

And by history books, i do not mean the B/S that our governments are feeding us through the education system depending in wich country we live in and its interests. I mean real world history written by impartial academics who put the facts 1+1=2 style.

The majority of the problems that 2nd and 3rd world countries face come from the meddling of the so-called *superpowers* (namely the UK, USA, Russia) in their internal affairs for their own political and economical gain. Take it from the only divided capital city in the world in Cyprus (its an island - member of the EU - that is half occupied by Turkey for the last 35 years), to the problems in Yugoslavia / Serbia and the still alive idea of "Great Albania" (splitting up one of the proudest nations of the world because it would not bow to the interests of US and UK), to Iran, Afghanistan, Korea etc.

If someone was to buy 5 history books about the situations that dominatated the sequence of events in the afformentioned countries, he would be reading the same story 5 times all over.

Only educated people around the world, most importandly in countries that MAKE wold policy (like USA and EU) can change that, by knowing what has happened and controlling the future with their votes. I know Longbird wont agree with this, but Mc Cain to invade Iran and restore democracy is not the solution. He wont be there because he loves your people, he will bring a lot of other things with him that wont be the things he says...

Thanks for sharing longbird..

Hi again

First I want to apologize from people who maybe the names of their countries are mentioning sometimes bad here. I do not want to insult anybody and I am trying to say things according to the documents.
Let's continue our story. How Mullahs took Power. When Carter who is a foolish humanitarian, pressured Shah to open the society of Iran, As I said there were no liberal man and woman in the country. People did not know anything about politics (like Turkey now). They were completely alien with intellectuals and just listening to Mullas even educated people. Islam had a very high value in community and absorbed almost everybody (like Turkey now days). Intellectuals were messengers of violence and terror according to Islam and Communism which was fashion in those days almost everywhere. From other side peaceful request did not listen by powers and super powers. In this situation 3 main groups were growing in Iran: 1- Mullahs who had wide spread communication network in all over the country. 2- Communists that people did not like them. 3 – A combination of Islam and Communism.
Secret police of Shah did not permit anybody to speak about politics and we also should consider the great role of Soviet Union in all of 20th century events. In fear of Soviet Union Berzhinski Presented a doctoring which was called Religious Belt or Green Belt. According to this doctrine, religious values must be supported everywhere especially in Countries neighboring Soviet Union.
Therefore they have started to make huge films like The Message about Prophet Mohammed, Ten Commands about Moses and some films about Christ. Salary was paid to Mullahs in Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia etc. In fact they did wherever they could for empowering religious people and movements against Communism.
At the same year Soviet Union Attacked Afghanistan and West saw religion is a very efficient and useful instrument and in fact it worked very well against Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
I should add here that what Carter did, was not just because of his personal problem with Shah. It was a program to have some reforms again in Countries neighboring Soviet Union! To make them immune against Communism.
Okay. After the 1953 Coup, England was driven out almost completely from Iran and even Shah in some interview spoke against them.
IMPORTANT: We must know that in Shi' Islam there is a rule which is very important to know that. It is called: Taghyeh which means hiding. According to this rule you can hide your faith, your believes and you can show yourself somebody completely different from what you are really (this confuses westerners about government of Iran). According to this rule you may do every wrong thing to save your life or to reach to your goal. You can swear that you do not want to make nuclear weapon, but at the same time think how destroy all over the world with nuclear weapons!
Okay! Khomeiny used exactly this method in Paris. He cheated people of Iran with promising about free Electricity, water, bus and giving some money and no problem for women and freedom for all of the parties left or right, but he was lying all the time! And sometimes when he could not prevent saying what he wanted to do exactly, his translators which were so called Persian intellectuals which educating abroad, translated it for reporters something completely different.
Khomeini also cheated Americans and promised them that when he comes back to Iran, he will not interfere in political affairs and will go to a mosque and will pray to God! Carter accepted to remove Shah and bring Khomeini! And he came back!
To be continue!

jmo here, Konigsberg and some fact.

Our Joint Chiefs of Staff did a military report on Iran. And advised against any 'military invasion' of the country. They did not take the
'military option' away.......such as air operations, special teams ops,
and such as that. But any kind invasion or occupation of Iran, they
are against.

We talk of the Iranian situation a lot. Because of the fundamental Islamic regieme that it has and that ever since coming to power it
has supported terrorism, in many forms.

Also we have a problem when a US Embassy is sacked and its employees are held captive for a lengthy period of time. By International law that was the same as if they had stepped onto US Soil and invaded our country when that occurred. Technically, that was a act of war. A act of war that even today that has not been negotiated to a ceasefire, or peace treaty. Iran has never made
or offered repariation to the 126 Americans that they invicted such
pain on.

With Iran pressing hard for both nuclear materials programs and a possible nuclear device program, with Russia fully or nearly fully supporting Iran, we see the potential for nuclear terrorism coming
from Iran.

And yes, if such occurs...the relationship between Russia and the
United States will be at a all time low, it will make the cold war seem like a kid's snow ball fight. Honestly, the one thing that would put American boots into Iran, is some kind nuclear terrorist attack. That Joint Chiefs report would be over ridden by a Executive order so fast, it would be on their desk the next day for military operations against Iran.

We could go on here......talk of American policy abuses aginst Iran, the
Iraq war, price of oil, and difference between east and west. But until
Iran divests itself of terrorism, there is not much room to talk.

Longbird, please tell fellow CSer about the Mosque of 12 Domes near Tehran. About its religous ideology and philosphies. This is the Mosque that Iranian President A. grew up in. He was orphaned and this Mosque took him in, educated him and gave him a start in life. Today, he uses many of it clerics as advisors.

Hi
England has traditionally very good relations with Mullahs and it started when England captured India. There, England understood that Mullahs have a very great influence upon Muslims and therefore started to recruit them. A rich prostitute died in India in 19th Century and remained a great wealth from her and she did not have any inheritor. English claimed that this money belongs to Shi' Mullahs and started to give them salary from this money!!!! Therefore relations between Mullahs and England became stronger and stronger until the collapse of Soviet Union (for more than 2 centuries) and everybody can see that about 80 % mosques in Europe are in England and especially in London!
When the story of open society imposed to Shah by Carter, English which knew the entire world very well unlike Americans, understood it is the time to have Iran again. BBC became the voice of Revolution and when it broadcasting its news every evening, nobody could be finding in the streets. They were at homes to listen to BBC.
I must say that PEOPLE OF IRAN did this Revolution and I do not want to accuse every country except people of Iran for this Revolution.
But Khomeini did not go to a mosque. He started to do what he wanted to do step by step (like Turkey). The first victims were women. They were asked to use scarf ( not a veil or Chador etc.) Just a scarf!!!. Step by step like Turkey . Women were not permitted to be judge! They were driven out from Society to homes. It was said it is better for them to stay at home and keep children. Some of them resisted but suppressed, some escaped and all of them happened step by step and not in one night.
All of the parties were driven out from the scene. England helped as much it could, because the some parties had left tendencies and some were opposing with interference of England in Iran.
But Soviet Union and its local agents were trying also. They guided occupation of Embassy of America in November 1979. Liberal Prime minister in objection to this behavior resigned. So called students who occupied Embassy find some worthless documents there. Khomeini understood that with this papers he could call everybody spy pf America. Therefore he called the occupation of Embassy Second Revolution!
Carter ordered Army of America to liberate hostages, but this operation failed! Khomeini was now Prophet of Age and every body believed that he is the messenger of God! And Carter did not do anything. Just watching and permitting fundamentalism take root! Revolution spread to other countries! Anwar Sadat was killed in Egypt. Khomeini was dreaming to capture the world (like Ahmadi Nejad). He started to criticize Saddam Hosein. Saddam was waiting for this and attacked to Iran in Sep.1980 And Carter just watching! And people of Iran like sheep did whatever Khomeini asked them. He was prophet!
In 1980 Regan became President of the USA. He promised to the people of America if he becomes president, he will attack to Iran. Mullahs understood that Ronald Regan is not Carter and he is like Bush and MC Cine. So they feared and freed captives before Regan enters to white House. Mullahs understand the language of force very well!
But Regan did not continue! Because 11th of September did not happen yet and Soviet Union existed. Khomeini took advantage of this situation and in 1981 he closed all of the news papers, Universities and removed every remaining sign of modernism. Some groups resisted and he arrested many and killed thousands of Iranian youths (the real number is unknown yet!)
America understood that Carter made a great mistake and did not permit Islamic Revolution happens again in other Islamic Countries. But supported Islamic movements against Communism and Ben Laden are product of this period!
In this Period Khomeini did whatever he liked and almost nobody cared.
Soviet Union Collapsed in 1991 and sharp edge of fundamentalism retuned toward America itself!

Hi again

Okay. I know that some friends are eager to know what people of Iran are thinking now. I think it is a little bit soon to pay attention to this matter but there is no way. In short people after Revolution have understood that they have made a serious mistake.
Before Revolution they did not have any real knowledge of Islam, they did not know what has written in Koran, but after Revolution they understood everything. They understood that in Islam Woman is half a man or even woman is not human being at all. She is pig, but God has changed her figure until man could have sex
with her! Sorry!
Day by day people understood more about Islam and started to change. People obviously were and are regret about Revolution which they did. Shock after shock changed people completely. According to me one the greatest shock was in 1981. In that year Mullahs arrested many girls in demonstration against themselves. Mullahs ordered to kill them. But there was a problem. According to Islam a Virgin girl after dying will go to paradise and in Iran girls are usually virgin before marriage. Sohow to solve this problem? Very simple! First rape them and then shoot or hang them! The end of cruelty! And stories like this were happening every day.
After the war Khomeini ordered kill all of the political prisoners and in the summer of 1988 all of the political prisoners which were thousands were hanged in Iran. Just few saved! People understood what is the Islam is and what is the Islamic government. Hate of Religion which started from the morning of Revolution expanded day by day!
People started to rethink and they understood that their best friend in their history was America which never did anything bad against them. People understood that Mullahs are just a group of gangs who want to destroy their Country and to make problem for Persian and other Countries in the world. People understood because of wild behavior of Mullahs have lost their dignities in the world and the land of the Cyrus the Great who saved Jews from slavery was considering as the shelter of the terrorists. Therefore people separated themselves from regime. First it was difficult to get the point for foreigners, but at last they understood that these people are not the same people who occupied Embassy of America in 1979. It became especially very obvious when in the 11th of September many Persian youths came out with burning candles to streets to show their sympathy with Americans. America clearly got the point and separated the account of people from Regime and from that time whenever Bush is speaking about Iran, he emphasizes that he respects people of Iran and he has problem with the regime of Iran. I can claim that he is the most favourite person in Iran now and if everybody knows Persian could see how people love him when they speak about him in VOA Persian Service through telephones from Iran every night.
In fact as I mentioned beforehand we were the first nation who rose against the USA in the Middle East and we are now the only nation in the Middle East which knows America is great friend of us.
I am sure that some thinks that I do not know nature of the capitalistic regime of America, Imperialism etc. I humbly say I know these things very well! But America after 11th of Sep. is not America before 11th Sep. They have learned their lessons too! I am sure that many Americans do not pay attention what Bush says or does, but I am chasing everything as much as possible and I see that America has understood must help others to have democracy and bread and is moving in this direction and we see it here! America had many mistakes before 11th of Sep, but now they are trying to compensate and people of Iran welcome them.
Point is here that the other Islamic countries did not have the experience of the people of Iran and they think that Islam and fundamentalism could make a better world for them.

Hi again Trish. Sorry, I kinda lost track of this thread over the past couple of days but I want to continue this conversation. I will make it a point to look up some more information on this and share it with you.

Hi Longbird,

Some really intersting and tragic stuff. It will take some time to really take it in but I wanted to say thanks again for posting this thread and didn't want you to think your words were written to a blind audience. After all, we asked you to do it.

Hi Again

First I want sincerely thank here of some English people who gathered in front of Iran Embassy in London today and showed their support from Mansoor Osanloo the leader of one the Workers Syndicates in Iran which with some of his friends are now in prison. Especially from that English woman who said: Osanloo is my brother and I want to be with him in prison. Thank you!
Khomeini is copy of Prophet Mohammad and Islamic Revolution is a copy of advent of Islam. Therefore it is necessary to know the real history of Islam itself!
There is a very good book about real history of Islam which everybody could download free and with reading it understands what Islam is really? This book has been translated to some live languages. The name of book is: 23 Years and the writer of book is Ali Dashti. I strongly recommend to interested friends to read this book.
About information about Islam I suggest this site which has many links also:
www.efsha.co.uk

Site is in Persian and English language both!
If friends have any question about Islamic Revolution of Iran, I am ready to answer if I can, but I must know what you are eager to know!

Thank you for the thread and the info on Iran. It is hard for us to understand what has happened in Iran since the Revolution then.
It has largely become a closed society to many in the west. Both by the western sanctions and by the rules of the Iranian gov't and clerics.
Again thanks.