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I have no clue as how one small statement from a number of documents that reads : Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
As saying all of what you people think it says! This has been the only true piece of evidence that has been offered as the definitive truth about religion. and has been offerd by both sides. Only because it is the only thing writen about religion. And in truth it does not say all that much!
there for the American people have got to rely on there history to know what there fore fathers wanted!
And from the begining and even before the beginning of the united states, Religion has always been there referd to and incorperated into speaches. And if our fore fathers wanted religion to not be reconized or part of our nation they would never go ahead and corperate the word God into anything including the swearing in of judges and government officials. And you can say they don't do this now, and you would be right, but they did with our fore fathers! and it was not changed until non-believer raticals demanded it be changed!
And do not come to an American and down play our declaration of indapendence as if it were nothing! As I belive that every American would agree that it is Our declaration to be free from all other countries incummbrances! And Americans will stand by it so wether it is a leagal document or not in America it is our freedom and is leagal.
To say that it is not leagal is like saying any country can if the choose make us join them, follow there rule, believe what they believe and pay there taxes. Come on try to do that! tell America we have to! you may find the Declaration stuck up so far your butts you would be spitting words of freedom for months!
Now I think as far as I am concerned I have had enough of this debate, people are repeating them selves over and over, and when they try not to they are making slams and being rude. It is either see it your way or get out!
It is a good thing that this is a forum and not real life or we could have started another war!
I do not belive that the Us has very good people in the government right now but I am also sure none of us belong in office either.
I do not belive in war for selfishness and I do not belive that wether or not the 10 comandments belong in a courtroom is worth blood shed in war. And some one has to be big enough to walk away. So you have your way do what you want! I am not going to sit here and say and read the same things over and over.
I will belive what I want and I have said you have the same right.
but when it comes to slinging trash at each other I quit.
The comment that came from Canada that it would spill over there?
Are you not in control enough to keep your own ideals that you have to be scared that what ever America does will spill over and change things for you? Maybe you should quit worring about us and strengthen your own ways then.

Religious fanatics know no borders. They would take over the world if they could.

A few already have

The U.S. Constitution

The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. (For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.) The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment. As to our freedoms, the 1st Amendment provides exclusionary wording:

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. [bold caps, mine]

Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." There existed little controversy about this interpretation from our Founding Fathers.

If religionists better understood the concept of separation of Church & State, they would realize that the wall of separation actually protects their religion. Our secular government allows the free expression of religion and non religion. Today, religions flourish in America; we have more churches than Seven-Elevens.

Although many secular and atheist groups fight for the wall of separation, this does not mean that they wish to lawfully eliminate religion from society. On the contrary, you will find no secular or atheist group attempting to ban Christianity, or any other religion from American society. Keeping religion separate allows atheists and religionists alike, to practice their belief systems, regardless how ridiculous they may seem, without government intervention.



(Cont'd).....

The Declaration of Independence

Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. The reason appears obvious: the Declaration mentions God. (You may notice that some Christians avoid the Constitution, with its absence of God.)

However, the Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states.

Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets and believers, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. It represents a historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our government.

Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all get born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."

The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness.

Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.

Woof Woof....

Haha!

Good one!

it does not surprise me that you CANNOT formulate a thought of your own, that is just my opinion

Goose requested a quote where he changed his stance

I found this

"The country is based on the fight against government religion and taxation without representation"

followed later by

"And religious freedom was an add on to the list of reasons the colonies wanted to be independant."

That appears to be a change to me

What caused him to become obsessed with quoites was a statement I made noting that his 'beliefs seemed to be all over the spectrum.
O got that impression from his post which said

"What if I worship Bhudda, Zeus, Ra, or even myself?"

funny how this turned into a believers vs non believers debate, when it all started with a poem about one man's concern about the decaying moral character of our nation.

I came here because I noticed a friend was posting here. I soon encountered Goose and his beligerant attitude and the fight was on.

There have been some very intelligent posts here, which I found informative and entertaining.

I hope others found it all as inforrmative as I have.

Coward!

Very good
Ultimately the United States are meant to be a union of the citizens, each an individual with their own values. It expects that these citizens will exercise tolerance of the values of others.

Stretch. not a change, fella. good try though.

If it was written in 1973, then it is not realistic to compare it to a document written 200 years earlier. There is a point that, having the language of the US constitution, and the case law of the years between the writing of the documents, that The Bahamas chose to include God specifically in thier constitution.

you are in denial gosling.
when all else fails deny, deny, deny.

Gee, can you stretch that any thinner?

If it wasn't for the fact that I've read a lot of Gooses posts I might think you have a sliver here but you're grasping.

And there you are gnomie. You must be the twister CHAMP.....

And would that be like comparing the latest edition of the Bible to the scrolls of 2000 years ago?

Thank You,#2.

Now who is stretching?

Are you saying the Bahamas Constitution is supposed to be a translation?