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We are part of the source, but not the truth. We are connected to the god source, but we are not at the source level.

If you or I knew the complete truth, we would not have a vibration that would allow us to be in this astral plane and discussing this topic in this forum.

you know what they say about assume
my god,I don't think I can debate this because of the possibility factor. I mean, there is a certain wisdom in accepting as all of life does, except us. We are the only beings (that we know of) who tend to run against the flow of life?
and yet you persist.. debate needs two sides (at least) and this one, between you and I, is one of logic versus concept, though I tend to grasp your conceptual slices and then try to put them in linear adjuncts, I always find myself in some paradoxical whimsy. Debate is healthy and being uncomfortable in it at times only means our thoughts need re-addressing, re-configuring; don't you not think? east meets west, left meets right?

I like hindu aspects and budhist as well, but again your affirmation is the same as we are all ONE...co-creators? is not the sea many drops of the same water?

I get that we are the drop, singular as in you and I, her, he etc ... but as one we are the source? Lets change contradictory to 'paradoxical'

ok, for the sake of discussion I accept that we do not know the complete truth...OR do not know- that we do know the complete truth, as in haven't accepted it yet. (because our minds like to rationalize, and chat away at us, thus interfereing with our true selves and that knowledge).

and god said "let there be discussion"

much like trish's sentiment, so lets eschew the religion aspects and delve into just the god presence.

do we need to believe, or to accept, or just be?

With the choice of 'us, the universe, life force, etc.. I would dismiss the 'us' out of the equation; 'us' is a mere product of this Life Energy, Force. So far from the tons of ideas presented by all types of 'religious' and philosophical works through the thousands of years, many are mere repetitions of previous writers expounding on what God is or is not; of what we humans are to all other life forms, to the Universe and ultimately to this 'Life Force' that ultimately we call God.
There has been no original exclusive idea as to what this God is, basically. Ideas from the ridiculous to the sublime from peoples, cultures , civilizations all over our planet, both ancient and modern have simply decided and defined this Life Force over time for their own particular time and place, subject to any changes by newer generations or by other s from the outside of their origins. There never has been a unanimous view or opinion since the fall of ancient Sumer. Humankind has been battling not only itself since, but battling for and against a planetary consensus as to what this Life Force God is and of our relationship with it is. Basically we as all humans, have been stranded without consensus, direction or any sort of coherent effort to answer, let alone have the will to accept one if one could be worked out. Too many chiefs with not enough Indians dilemma.
For myself, after reading the books of the French mystic/ Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, on the very phenomenon of Mankind and those of Fritjof Capra on the interconnections of all life on this planet, basically saying that we humans are only concerned with only a tiny part of some larger whole; yet every being has as much right to its life just as we do; that 'we' are not the center of the universe. There are millions of planets we don't know about yet, worlds we can perhaps hope to visit or communicate with some day, and, this Earth and the beings on it aren't at the center; rather, that we, the galaxy and all our universes themselves are just as tiny parts of the wisdom, beauty and everlasting mystery of 'God'.
All through the Time that people have tried to define this Force, the has, been one very interesting and new concept added by the historian. writer, mystic, etc. author Maurice M. Cotterell in that he has detected a cyclic appearance of 'manifestations' of this force into human forms through out the ages to each civilizations, all basically bringing the same 'gifts' to humans, be they Maya or Hindu and all the others. He certainly has noticed something of profound importance and explains it all rather well in his book SUPERGODS. Add this to those mentioned above and to many, many others, we have indeed a rational and mystical set of patterns emerging as to what this Life Force is, which also then reveals what it is not. "Fascinating!" as Spock would say...

Seems like God, the Force, the generating power plant of All That Is, known by many names, is also curiosity. Curiosity is an incredible force. So when you take the most powerful force that is, and use just part of it, that curiosity is capable of manifesting in physical form anything that the force puts its attention on. So therefore you have a myriad of lifeforms, because the God Force is a very curious force. And the fact of thought at all, thinking of anything, takes it to manifestation. The thought creates, and we are one of many, many, many thoughts.

Actually, I come out pretty close to 50/50 on those tests Al

The congregational aspect, in my opinion, falls down and will continue to do so till they all find the same hymn sheets - or get some new ones written and stop arguing about it all

.........

We have one world and a common ancestry - shared within that ancestry are the beauteous experiences of this bounteous universe - I find it such a shame that theism spreads the words of disunity, and worse - that people are taken in by it still.

Its getting late and this earth is being sadly misused, the waters are full of poisons and natural resources are being wasted - but all pay obiesance to the fellah in the sky or some historical precepts - we need to be more aware of NOW......

Basically we as all humans, have been stranded without consensus, direction or any sort of coherent effort to answer, let alone have the will to accept one if one could be worked out. Too many chiefs with not enough Indians dilemma.
For myself, after reading the books of the French mystic/ Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, on the very phenomenon of Mankind

"Fascinating!" as Spock would say...

The more questions we ask the more questions are brought up. It seems to be never-ending. We will probably never be able to understand it at all in this astral plane of cruel vibrations. There will always be more complicated concepts just beyond our reach. Yet for me and my crazy-insatiable curiosity that is the excitement of the search and the adventure of probing the unknown. I aint stoppin on this journey.

The more questions we ask the more questions are brought up. It seems to be never-ending. We will probably never be able to understand it at all in this astral plane of cruel vibrations. There will always be more complicated concepts just beyond our reach. Yet for me and my crazy-insatiable curiosity that is the excitement of the search and the adventure of probing the unknown. I aint stoppin on this journey.

Absolutely..:clapping:... this is why.. I miss u when u decide to disappear.. I love a good debate... and while we don't always agree I enjoy the points u make.. and believe it or not I do take them on board

agreed and maybe many of us are heading to those same hymn sheets persay.the affect of need in those who are unable to grasp the whole without help from another... combined with those who would abuse that need in others.Again I agree, we have by ignoring our souls and our spirit, raped and plundered our planet for physical riches and fleeting joys. Most times though, I have faith in the indominable spirit of man (or nature itself) to change, even if that change only comes from destruction.

In the final analysis, the questions of why bad things happen to good people transmutes itself into some very different questions, no longer asking why something happened, but asking how we will respond, what we intend to do now that it happened.
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Fine, lets see how you percieve this:

Seems like God, the Force, the generating power plant of All That Is, known by many names, is also curiosity. Curiosity is an incredible force. So when you take the most powerful force that is, and use just part of it, that curiosity is capable of manifesting in physical form anything that the force puts its attention on. So therefore you have a myriad of lifeforms, because the God Force is a very curious force. And the fact of thought at all, thinking of anything, takes it to manifestation. The thought creates, and we are one of many, many, many thoughts.

Words to live by, as are many of his.

Oh, I should add and answer your question, AS ONE WE ARE THE SOURCE......paradoxical yes....

When we leave the source, we become physical...separate from the source but still part of the source.

Yet another writer we have in common?

Hiya ... will you explain this concept of Astral Plane to me? I have heard bits about Astral projection and all that kind of stuff.. but I am not sure conceptually what an 'Astral Plane' represents..

Read Heinlein!

Seriously, I have a strong tendency towards just being, If I am god (part of a universal force that embraces all) I already believe. If I am not god, well, the world trundles along just fine anyway. Violent, unfriendly and cruel but still trundling just fine.

And that is my stone skimming take on it.

Some interesting converstion, good thread Al.