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Heroic J. Carter returned from the middle east and proclaimed earlier today............
"Hamas is willing to live by Isreal in Peace"

The rest of the message includes, the following:

"if Isreal returns to pre 1967 war borders."

The later is something that Isreal has refused to accept as a condition, since the day after the war end in 1967. J. Carter in his efforts to gain middle east peace, might just have set them back 40 years.

We may never know what C. Rice had on the table after she said, "I see a light in middle east peace negotiations," several weeks prior to
J. Carter going to the middle east.

In his triphunant return, J. Carter also said that Hamas kidnappers of
the Isreali soldier, will let him write a letter home. These guys are so nice, Jimmy...a letter home! Imagine that. Dang, I am glad we did not have you negotiating for the release of the Hanio Hilton prisoners, they might still be there.

But Jimmy was able to get in a dig at the present Administration and Isreal, saying......'neither will talk with Hamas, a principle party in the middle east peace'. Also that Hamas would seek to reunite with Abbas Fatah party. And Hamas will not have a ceasefire with Isreal.

So doing some fast math on J. Carter meeting with Hamas we have:

Setting back middle east peace by 40 years..............................yes
Getting a letter...........................................................................yes
Ceasefire....................................................................................no
Undermining C. Rice middle east accords.................................likely
Gaining peace between Hamas factions.....................................yes
Dig at GWB Administration..........................................................yes

Not a bad batting average Jimmy, 4 for 6. If you are playing for the other side.

Another point of view:
Basically you have just had a chat with yourself, agreed with yourself and congratulated yourself for your fine analysis. No flaw in any of this really....if you are you! Myself, I don't believe Condi's "light" and I don't believe Carter has set anything back and the "dig" at Bush and Co seems pretty mild if it even is a dig. It is easy to live in a pretend world where the Bush administration is interested in a fair mideast settlement....until you have something honest to compare it to. That seems to me to be your problem with Carter's small efforts. They help to illustrate just how the Emperor has no clothes whatsoever.

JMO

I am sure those were great steps toward real peace on earth. There is no mening what so ever having those kind of weapons which can destroy the whole planet several times and this planet is too tiney and too important holding these kind of meaningless destruction power by great powers any way.

I also hope that there will be a new regim in USA soon which truely respects other major powers as Russia and China in real and not making fun of them or irritates them because the way toward real peace and alo the way toward regims as the iranian one will not have ability to produce wmd,s will be more smooth in all these superpowers working to gether and they listen to each other.

Making Putin looking like a monster is not the soloution at all and Bush does not know this and dont want to know this and his look alikes have no idea a bout this fact......and McCain will be even more aggressive a gainst other major powers becasue of a wrong beleive being the one and only super power remain on earth.

Wait and see if Obama becomes the next president TT. Then you will see a lot more positive actions done by super powers toward a better world for all of us and beside a regim in Iran whom does not dare to behave as they do any more.

I sincereally hope for a total remove of all nuclear weapons from the whole area. Israel, Pakistan, India and China as well must have a total clean up and so much destruction power in this sensitve area is just horrible and not good for the sake of the whole world.

Obama as the president will make a real peace possible between Israel and Palestine and after that.....Every thing will be possible!

What ever Sparky
Gosh it is so pathetic seeing repubes jumping up and down for Hillary because they know she can not defeat this old war monger of their,s McCain!

As told before..........Rather some remarcs from Obama which are truley justified and very wise than a president candidate whom has tons of problems and lies and unanswered questions a bout her self and her hubs affairs.

the whole bull shit is a bout: It is not "ptriotic" telling the facts a bout the problems and the roots of the problems in America! But be sure....even amoung republicans there are many individuals whom know that kind of beleive is just bull shit!

The whole thing is a bout the same problem some body like me facing in here......people do not like to hear any thing which can destroy their short sitet beleives and critisising any thing a bout the system which is on powe rright now is concidered as horrible and as I am american basher and bull shit like that!

And I say Welcome to democracy! Listen to the critics , live with it and learn from the words...........and in that way you will be able to have a better life for you and for your countrymen.

Obama campaines differnetly and he does not care much a bout telling the facts in a strong way and thats why he means real change in America if he is elected as the Captain. He will never expect Americans to "Pray" their problems a way or Shutting up because they might get a tag on telling" non patriot"! Under his presidency people will feel much more free to talk a bout their frustrations and in that way real democracy will come back in your country.

Hillary for you Sparky......She is a good way relecting the Bushney,s a gain and you know that perfectly as well!

Here is what I 'think'.....I am not in the loop to know.

C. Rice had been been working the back door channels to talk with Hamas and Hezbollah....via Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.

The return to 1967 border was one that all the warring countries and
the two groups Hamas and Hezbollah had for a number of years, after the war ended. Isreal has rejected it for a number of years as well.

With the 1967 warring countries, now at peace with Isreal. I think C. Rice was trying to get Hamas and Hezbollah to accept the present borders, for additional aid from the west. Reasonable? Abbas Fatah group needs the additional aid....so does the Hamas Gaza group.

Jimmy C. steps into the middle of it. Hamas now see a chance with a
possilbe new Dem Administration to get back the lands lost. Reconfirms to the 1967 borders for peace. Also get postions with the warring countries on their lost land. C. Rice initiative effectively scrubbed and underminded.

Also with the Hamas faction now split with Fatah in the west bank and
Hamas in the Gaza, she could work individual deals. Secure some agreement with Fatah on the West Bank. That is why Hamas want to reconcile, to keep such from happening.

Isreal not going back to the 1967 borders, Fallingman. Hamas knows that. They have been told that manytimes. But maybe you have heard it differently?

What ever light she saw.......now is back to 1967 positions....and we know how well that has worked for last 40 years....we never hear what these back door channel were opening up. If Washington thinks that it a dead deal, with GWB being more and more a lame duck at this point......no real reason to try again.

So yes, I think Jimmy screwed it up big time.

Mr. Putin....is signing off on every nuclear development deal that Russian firms and Iran can come up with. So.....yes if you are really for the end of nuclear weapons ....should be calling him all the names that you have used for GWB.

Also GBW administration helped to sponsor with the Suadi, the nuclear free Persian Gulf zone region. Which both the Russian and Iran effectively blocked by signing new contracts on nuclear materials plants and reactors.

There is this. A one point in the War on Terror......when Afghanistan was hot. There was what was called the 'nuclear option'.
Don't get it confused with the 'nuclear option' that was in kicked around in Congress over the Dem and Rep legislative process. This was to 'really use' small nuclear devices on those mountian hides in
Afghanistan. Some DoD types proposed it. Would have left hot radioactive melted mountains in Afghan for the next 100 years.
GWB and Joint Chief rejected the proposal.

With Putin and Pres A. signing at last count 32 nuclear reactor and processing deals for Iran, and Russia supplying 80 ton of enriched
uranium (yes the kind that goes boom)to Iran to run a reactor. And with Iran wanting 26 more deals. I would say your position here is hypocritical.

On the one hand you call GWB a 'atomic war dog'.....in reality he ends ours Ploutomiun reactor program and Russia's. Mr. Putin is for 'peace and love'.... as in reality he signs reactor and processing deals with Iran. You don't get it both ways. Specially when the facts are contridict what you say.

Dude really? Mr. Putin and Pres A have have made making a nuclear deals like most would sign a deal to open a new gas station on the street corner.LOL Now with the Islamic Clerics of Iran saying......'Iran needs to be a super power in military technology to defend itself against foreign invaders'.....

If that was really the case. That Iran feared US invasion. Why not sign a bilateral defense agreement with Russia? With that is place, think that the good USA would hit the beaches of Iran? Put some boots on the ground there? With Russia ready to send her nuc at us? or Europe? Not on your life or mine. Military intervention in Iran is dead deal unless you want WWIII.

Russia and Iran are signing every other sort of agreement.......why not this one? Exactly, the issue is not a fear of US invasion......it is Iran's desire is for nuclear material and the processes for them.

How can you patronize like this???

One of the skills a man can have is at least try to (or better) be able to get into different point of views!!

Every (wo)man has a reason for their opinion. And people lower themselves talking down to others.

Who mentioned therapist??

I`ve not read the whole thread, but calm down - this thread shows why so many guns are used everyday...

For myself to speak: "There are several places on this planet I would`nt live without being able to protect myself

It seems like law and order more and more often only are meant for the chosen few...

Kitty

TT.......I
beleive when Putin meets a USA whom talks down toward his country then he gets too proud and becoming closer friend with america,s emnemies and one of those is the iranian regim.

Chiness have become closer to iranian regim as well because of the matter a bout taiwan and now also because of Tibet problem.

there is a need for real diplomats in deed to solve all the problems which tretens america,s security and by that security of the rest of us as well.

Right now and since 2001 there is a great lack of real diplomats in America whom are able to make the wheels going more smoothly and beside Pakistan has become a nuclear power unfortunatily and after that other supressor regims in the area and specially the iranian one became more igore to get their dirty hands of nukes as well because they "think" that will be the only way our of treats from Israel and USA and even Pakistan and India as well.

Pakistanies have not much natural ressources and iranian regim knows if there will be a conflict pakistan regim will also use some of its nuclear arsenal a gainst Iran because they are also thirsty for iraninan soil.

I have no idea how on earth the Bushney,s way of a more propper Iran or a real peace between Israel and Palestine or better realtion ships between them and Russia and China can ever success , if the way toward reaching that is the way Bush thinks is the only option.

The Bushney,s methode is a huge failiur and not a single thing they have dome for solving international problems have worked at all!

Even North Corea is back on the aggressor side a gain! Damn nasty in deed and a sign that we will all be screwd if the Bushney,s methods are allowed to continue after the election in November with McCain as the president.

It is easy to bash Carter or Blix or Obama or Clarck or any body else whom dares to talk a bout alternative ways to ward peace, because the stupied "With Us or Against Us" or "My way or High Way" retoric of the Bushney,s is what this american regim keeps doing and that has not worked and it will not work in the feauter either I am certian.

Be sure every body wants peace and every body needs a certain way to talk upon but if you dont give it a damn and refusing to talk with them unless a lot of things must be furfilled first and they all endorsing Bush first......then Failur is all we will see now and in the featur as well.

enough is enough and the regim of the Bushney,s have failed and they can not do any thing else than failur! Fire them first and then start on real fresh initiatives and beside appriciate politicians as Carter whom in past has made talking amoung emnemies possible!

Then you better read the whole thing first!

In fact I do have better things to do...

lol....so do we all....but hey....it's fun!

Dude and Fallingman,

I have been doing some more thinking on the middle east thing.

Follow a little bit. About 5-6 months ago, GWB Administation signed some heafty mil contract deals with both Isreal and Saudi. Virtually
indentical deals. Only difference was that the Isreali got a precision guided bomb that was slightly better than the Suadi.

So now you have 'military parity' on the two sides....at least in the conventional sense. A balance of power in a sense. If Isreal acts as a
agressor....to any of the bordering Islamic countries....Saudi can come
into the fight. Also Isreal is strong enough to defend itself from any
agression of the bordering Islamic countries.

This is what set C.Rice of 'light of peace' possible up. Now she could go in and say....look the nation states here have parity of weapons and have this balance of power.....let us solve the Hamas and Hezbollah problems with thse back door negotiations. She has the nation state buying it.

Only now she makes her public statement.....on seeing 'light on the peace process'. That brings Jimmy out of the woods. From what they have said here in the media. Jimmy is still angry with the American Jewish population for voting against in his last Presidential run. They were then mostly Dem. And voted against him.Accoding to teh media people, he has spoken off the record that he feels that they cost him the election. So he has motive to screw this up....or in his words to meet and make it happen.

We all want middle east peace. Without it the world really does not move ahead.

But say Obama get elected now. The arms deals that brought military parity are done. So he has nothing there to offer. He has one side that will meet with him......Hamas and maybe Hezbollah. But on the other side....now that the deal is to return to 1967 borders....Isreal
is not going to talk...or at least if I was Isreal, I would not. Why?

For Isreal to come back to the 1967 borders, means they give up thier security walls, their west back communities, and other lands. The Isreali people got really tired of suceide bomber destroying Israeli buses. When then wall went up, that stopped. Isreal is not gonig to give up land, when it decreases thier security. Isreal gave up Gaza because it actually improved thier security. The IDF did not have to go into Gaza to defend the 22,000 Isreali there. It was a good security move. This one is not. Obama has little to nothing to offer the Isrealis.

They will reject any offer he tables, I think.

Nice evasion Dude, not a word on Russian & Iran nuclear deals. The subject of my post. Thanks for clearing these other matters up for us.

I think obvious and also secret close relationship between Iran and Russia is a direct result of the cold realtion ship between Bush and Putin. I am sure there is no way that cold realtion ship which is a result of diplomatic disabilities of the Bushney,s administration can be reapired and no matter what Bush or his successer(if McCain) does, there will no be any kind of real cooporation between Russia and America in order to create a peaceful world.

The only way all this trouble can end will be another kind of administration in the White House. Russia has been angry from day one they took Iraq and they have lost a lot money because of that and a lot politichal honour as well and feeling being laughed upon form day one Bush took over.

I dont beleive playing with a lions tail ever is a good idea, and think it is best to find a language acceptable for any body one wants to talk with.

Still deciding the process of seating deligate to vote on the winner, recording votes and enteries here. If like the present Dem party, will only take 4 or 5 month to know if you place a legal entry.

But you got a here!

So GWB is the reason for Putin signing off on the Iranian deals?

That is cute.

When we have Iranian nuc for real, let us all blame the far left...for saying such things.

As told before......There is no such a thing as the far left with Obama but still you like to beleive that way and thats your choice.

Still if Obama wins and Iran still gets nukes then yeah...I beleive that will be because of lack of politichal abilities of the new american presidency in ded.

It is GWB whom made Iranian regim and Russia finding a common "enemy" in Bush and getting this close to each otehr as they are. Of course GWB is the main reason TT. It is really odd you have not noticed it before!

You know who else lost a lot of money on Iraq? Beside the Russian....
Good old Europeans did.......France, Germany, and other had major contracts with Sadam.

Why would the Russian lost political face with Iraq? Dude...........Iraq is not even in their sphere of influence after the break up.

But I guess.....since Putin showed President Bush where his yacht would be berthed during the coming Russian Winter Olmpics.....the freeze between the two must be over.....and Russia is going to be stop the nuc contract with Iran? Anyone that believes that, I have some land east of KSC to show them here in Florida.

Beside Dude......no one has to worry about Russia.....they are harmless....detoothed..... defanged.....all they want to do is take Euro for thier crude and become rich billionaires. Gesh, I'm not even sure why we have troops in Europe any more....or why you need to have this EuroArmy.......of course they building new battle tanks and new
advanced fighter attack aircaft. So maybe is premature to leave you guys.

Dude, I will tell you something. After the break up of Russia. If we wanted to embarress Russia. We surely could have. When the Russian sub went down....the US was one of the first to offer help. When Aeroflot got into trouble here with routes and such, we tried to keep
it flying into the US. We have reprocessed tons of old nuclear materials for Russia. And paid for much of the nuc disarment. Paid for much of the Russian nuc security programs. We let Russia into the Space Program and yes needed them after the Shuttle accident. But could have kept them out and shut the Space Station program down.so if we wanted to embaress Russia or to be less than friendly with then a wounded bear, we could have been. GWB took the high road with Russia in many ways.

What did the US and world get in return get in return? Putin and Pres A shaking hands on nuc deals. Russia playing games with crude prices to the Ukraine. Russian hackers coming into the Baltic states financial institution systems with cyber hacking and theft. Russian weapons contracts to Sadam and Iran.

Tugging the Russian bear's tail is good to do at times. Specially when you can do it with stealth aircraft. And they don't even know you are tugging it. Go Stealth Go....