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Ok, just heard the corperate-news report that some world leaders are calling ethanol a "crime against humanity". Some are asking that it stop, arguing that farmland used to grow fuel is less farmland for food.

Done a little research myself, old news is: it takes 7 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat... good reason to eat more bread.

70% or so of all corn grown in USA goes to feed livestock.

Understand that the by-product of ethanol production-(leftover AFTER the mash is used to make fuel) is a high-protein... LIVESTOCK FEED!

Have I missed something, or is it a win-win thing? If the livestock feed remains after the ethanol is produced... isn't it a neutral outcome?

Help me here HealthyLiving?

We could hook a hose up to a cow's ass and produce methane. It burns, I hear?

Now, on a more serious note, I've read where it takes the same amount of energy to produce ethanol as what's derived. A neutral outcome

Corn does not properly digest in the animal's digestive system any better than in our own... causes illness in the animals which are then loaded up with antibiotics. Don't believe me, try a steady diet of corn and see how it feels.

Corn is used for livestock to fatten them up faster... these cattle go to market after only about 18 months. It's all about money.

Grass fed beef is high in good omega-3 fatty acids and corn fed beef is high in bad omega-6 and that's what causes clogged arteries... which in turn leads to use of prescription drugs. Here again it's all about money.

In addtion, growing corn quickly depletes the soil of vital nutrients and results in overuse of chemical fertilizer, herbicide and pesticide that's poisoning our land and water.

Beyond that, switch-grass would have been a better choice for ethanol and grass fed to beef would be healthier for animals and people and neither would require chemicals to be sustainable... but the corporations that make chemicals and drugs have bankrolled politicians and dictate the use of corn for feed and fuel.

Most people are just like cattle and will eat whatever is put in front of them. It's all about money to be made and things will not change unless more people get smarter about who they elect to CON-gress and make smarter choices about what they eat.

Yeah right... like that's going to happen.

That is, as I understand it, quite true. The same energy, that is. I'm not gonna light a fart...

Don't light a cow fart......It might blow you back to Detroit.

Thanks for the info. When I'm not eating whole grain bread made with non-bleached flour and without partially hydrogonized oils... I'll look for grass-fed beef! Or some other, more humane protein source.

My thoughts for this thread were: even if it is a small, misguided step, (in the right direction) that is, USA OFF of oil.

I mean ethanol, it is still a STEP in the right direction. Instead of shooting down what little progress we are making toward energy independence, WHY NOT encourage MORE steps in the right direction.

If the end product of corn-based ethanol is STILL cow food, how is that small, bungling step, a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY?

Brazil is doing great things with sugarcane and ethanol, using cars made by GM!

I'm not spending my time here trying to argue, I'm trying to get more of us to demand real solutions to our problems, through education.

Thanks for your thoughts.

brazil is oil independant
the so called biodiesel it can be produced froma plant that is poisoning to the human being
no price increase in the food

but goverment is not interested in anything, they are only interested in raising their own salary

but when the PEOPLE decide to vote and take things in their own hads, the the goverment might change (i mean atending to the polls in 95% or more, not like now that the goverment is elected by a minority)

I hope I did not offend. In fact, I believe what Brazil has done is remarkable. They made some difficult decisions after the first oil crisis, changed their infrastructure, and it has paid handsome dividends.

As I understand it, and I'm no expert, sugar-based ethanol packs a LOT more punch in terms of combustion energy, which makes it pretty efficient. Most vehicles on corn-based ethanol get 20-25% less mpg. That, and the energy to make it rolled into it, makes it a tough proposition. Then again, it is doing something. Realistically, we have to look at everything.

Of course, the jaded side of me realizes that the oil lobby and politics in general will have manufacturers performing experiments for PR purposes with no real hope for any relevant change.

Of course, the government in it's infinite wisdom pushed ethanol to the maximum. Now look at what we have...watered down gas and soaring food prices.

There are some REALLY COOL technologies coming from our resourceful USA citizens right now folks!

Algae, or pond-scum for ethanol. Even can be harvested from the "dead zones", or oxygen-depleted seas off Oregon and in the Gulf of Mexico-(from fertalizer washing in)

Improves the sea AND makes fuel. Also can be cultivated in waste water treatment ponds. Helping overall water quality AND making money/fuel.

If the gov wont act, than lets just do it!

Is anyone with us on this?

It is easy, low tech stuff. Just takes some will and ingenuity.

I'm not kidding around, we can also make a bunch of money as a bonus to helping the planet.

Anyone remember the "Pet Rock" of the late 70's? This stuff will "catch on", no shit!!

it is easy to say than to do

in FL that we have sun all year round, yu cannot build yourself a solar pannel to heat water

if yu want to use the sun as an energy, you have to hire a contractor, apy all the fees (you will end with someting arounf $10.000.oo)

while if some one want to build it himsef it will cost about $100.oo

again, the goverment will take your money in every posible way

it is not about saving oil or using alternate energy (that is only a nice slogan) it is abut colecting taxes as much as posible

I saw that once. I was in The Marines. Something went wrong. The guy holding the lighter got a big area of his face burnt. I think the guy who farted was not feeling well.

Till this day, I can't believe it's possible.

There should NEVER be a monetary reward for saving mother earth. NO good socialist believes that!

A good socialist believes that a bit of wealth distribution via the tax system would benefit the majority of civilisation - as opposed to those who are much too happy with blind, ignorant consumerism, materialism, and corrupt, parasitic capitalism.

Hey, I'm just trying to capture the attention of "THE MASSES" in Western civilization. Many seem to respond to monetary rewards.

If you believe that is MY main motivation, good, you do that. But if it were, I certainly would NOT share my ideas!

Methane is a wonderful, plentiful, WASTED resource. Tacoma's main sewer plant burns it into the air!

Instead of BIG, expensive regional treatment plants. Why not methane digesters on-site? Even if there were only enough energy to pre-heat your hot water tank inlet. Just TRY and visualize the savings!

Lots of bovine farmers are starting to set up their own digesters, good, smart thing that. Also cuts down of greenhouse gases.

We've got to act on our own folks.

Why are these ideas so ridiculed? Worse than apathy, frankly, it is counter productive. Too bad.

I think I understand what you're saying. The non-achievers should be propped up by those with motivation to succeed. Makes sense to me.

Yeah, Smartfella! You have the answers! We are so lucky that you contribute.

That's why millionaire pro-ball players and owners get OUR public tax dollars to help their underachiving, unmotivated ASSES build their playhouses.

AND why folks like EXXON MOBILE get 18 billion in Federal Tax breaks from OUR treasury, exactly when they set the World's Record for corperate profit of 44 billion.

Guess the earnings tax drawn from all of us underachieving, unmotivated slackers is best spent helping EXXON! Just until they get back on their feet!