Being a Christian....

Aries01
Dublin, Dublin Ireland

Posted: May 24, 2008, 9:55 AM CST

rusty_knight wrote:

Aries - you are a child of God, but to me you look like an angel!

Hiya Rusty.. I haven't seen you in a while :hug;

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Galactic_bodhi
Portland, Oregon USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 9:57 AM CST

And verily I see things as my brother, and I am healed. For God stirs in a rock, sleeps in a blade of grass, dreams in a dog, and awakens in Mankind. In this, my brother, I see me as myself, and feel as I do. How can I not love my brother?-Anonymous.

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 1:05 PM CST

Here are some thoughts that might stir things up a little.

I guess I see it as being one of two types of Christian. One will be welcomed by Jesus into his reward for truly believing in Him "inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" (Matthew 25:34), and one will be told "...depart from me, ye that work iniquity."(Matthew 7:22-23). Both claim to be Christians, and both probably THOUGHT they were. But the Bible makes things very clear. So clear, that there will be no excuses on the BIG day. The Bible makes Christianity the most divisive faith in the world. Jesus said he came with a sword. He came to divide. He came to claim all that are His. I know there are some that will be very angry with what I am saying. Some will label me a "Fundamentalist" or one who takes the Bible literally. I just don't understand how you can base your faith on a book that you do not believe to be completely true or accurate. Like backing a candidate you only consider to be 80% good. And the Bible leaves no way for you to just brush the other stuff under the rug. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (Second Timothy 3:16-17). Do we just believe in the things that we AGREE with, or do we allow that with which we struggle to help change us into something better.

Someone said that love is what it is all about, and I believe that whole heartedly. Love is the key. It is what brings this all together. It is what drives the true believer. But is it the kind of love a parent displays when they discipline their child, or the kind of love displayed when we decide not to discipline because it is just too much work. Does not love always act in the best interest of the person being loved? Even if that action is sometimes painful? It was love that moved Jesus at all times. He did two things while he was here. He said what He heard His Father saying, and He did what He saw His Father doing. And He did both out of love. It was love that made Him heal the sick. It was love that made Him raise Lazarus. It was out of love that He gathered the disciples to Himself, even though He knew they would all face agonizing ends. It was out of love that He confronted the religious leaders of His day. Love motivated Him to take a whip and drive the merchants out of the temple. And it was in the name of love that He laid His life down for all of us.

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 1:05 PM CST

In heaven, our absolute love for Jesus will be the common thread we all share. For there will be none there that believe they are there because of anything they have done. No one in heaven will believe they are there because of how much they went to church, or how much money they gave to the poor, or how nice they were to the people around them, or how much they believed they lived a good life. There will be no place for any pride or self righteousness like that. All who are in heaven know that the only reason they are there, is because Jesus loved them, and they responded to that love. The overwhelming emotion in heaven will be gratitude. Like when a person is barely rescued from a burning building and they feel such emotion toward the fireman or rescuer, that at that moment they would be willing to serve them all their lives. How much more, when we see what we were rescued from, will we be willing to worship our God for all of eternity? Our reward (our mansions and crowns) will mean little compared to being able to be with our rescuer forever. “the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:’ You are worthy, O Lord, For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created.’" (Revelation 4:10-11).

This is the Christianity in which I believe. One in which God says, to be worthy of, will cost you everything. But also one in which God says I will give you ALL of Myself. I get to trade the life I am able to eek out in this world with a life God has established from the foundation of the universe. This is what I see as “Being a Christian…”

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Galactic_bodhi
Portland, Oregon USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 1:19 PM CST

God would not have made everything diverse if He didn't want struggle. Nevertheless I can't take the New Testamant as literally as you do, since its been revised and edited for so many diverse political reasons over the centuries. I can accept it metaphorically and allegorically just like I do Buddhism, but I will not lie to you and say I can literally take a book who Constantine, James, and various other political entities have had their hands on as anything other than the history written by winners who wrote as a winner, in the express intent of making everyone else a loser through fear. I can inspire people to higher states of grace quoting either the Bible, or the Lotus Sutra, because I am "Skilled at simile and parable"-("the Lotus Sutra"-Hoben Chapter). This does not make me evil, merely more interested in God's message rather than who the messenger is.

Love is all. As ye sow, thus shall ye reap. That is what I believe. The rest is dogma and semantics. People want division, not God, and to blame it on God, or Satan, is just avoiding responisibility.

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mindfful
--, Missouri USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 1:24 PM CST

whats wrong w/ fundamental

if we know the fundamentals of mathematics its good
its necessary in fact

thats just one of many word that have been taken to far from their actual definitions

along w/ ignorance and debate, as just a few examples

and as far as catholocism
its considered a different faith even by the vatican than christianity

it holds mary as high as jesus-thats against the commandments
its quite religionistic and ritualistic
ive discussed this very thing w/ a few nuns recently
there is a movement among catholics to observe the existence and tehings of christ anew
sort of like the jews for jesus movement

new testament jesus came to create a direct link-
jesus is the intercessor not men (priests)
believers are commanded to confess to god not a priest
god is capable of providing opportunities to make things right
w/o any recitation of prayers or lighting of candles
i think we like 'doin stuff'
ancient peoples all had rituals-but its not the meat or magic-
its jst something we like or gain comfort from-thats not wrong-it just is.

thats all in the book

the catholics are rather like the sadicees and early rabbis
standing a man between us and god

its just different than acknowledging jesus as the way truth and life etc

this isnt meant to offend, just draw out some things

communion means something different-works mean something different-pennance , service...its works

he died to give a gift
christianity is the only path wherein salvation is a gift-period
relationship direct to god bridged by the holy spirit-no man as intercessor no festivals for saints...

im not being arrogant
im coming straight from the book

the fndamentals of christianity are added to profusely by many faiths-mormon, catholic, JW etc

peole are people-so intelligent they 'improve' on things. tweak things or reason they are complete hogwash

thats human nature i think whether one believes we were created or evolved-thats how i see us anyway-
worshippers of intellecualism
and shiny 'magical' stuff...

some might say the relationship w/ christ is pretty supernatural in experience while others say its imagined

it may be frightening to 'be christian' because they are persecuted, as that book says...?

and we arent as a race very good at live and let live while keeping our mouths shut also

thats my post for today my hands are numb and im gunshy around here

but i was just herin sharing some paraphrasing-nothing personal-no opinions
its all in there-
doesnt meaneveryone must believe it
thats surely not my business but each persons journey

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 2:32 PM CST

I do find it interesting that so many people believe the Bible to have been rewritten (translated into another language does not constitute rewriting as the translation can still be examined), changed, or somehow tampered with. The more you study its pages, the more you see the miracle of how it all goes together. If all the changes people claim to have happened really did happen, then it would be a huge mess by now.

I also find it interested that in almost 2000 years no one has ever found any part of the Bible to be wrong in a generally accepted way. Not even by the most hostile critics. The Bible, if it were not true, should have been dissected and torn apart and all its fallacies splashed across the headlines of a thousand papers by now, but it has not.

Put that together with some of the greatest minds concluding that the Bible is exactly what it claims to me, inerrant word of God.

Here is are some examples:

Ralph Waldo Emerson said "The unique impression of Jesus Upon mankind - whose name is not so much written as ploughed into the history of the world - is proof of the subtle virtue of this infusion."

Alfred Lord Tennyson said "The Lord from Heaven born of a village girl, carpenter's son, Wonderful, Prince of Peace, the mighty God."

Robert Louis Stevenson said "When Christ came into my life, I came about like a well handled ship."

Sir Lionell Luckoo, listed in the Guinness Book of Records, the "world's most successful lawyer", knighted TWICE bye the queen of England said "I have spent more than 42 years as a defense trial lawyer appearing in many parts of the world... I say unequivocally the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves no doubt."

Sir William Ramsey, one of the most famous archaeologist of his time, recipient of Gold Medals from the Royal Geographical Society, the Royal Scottish Geographical Society, the University of Pennsylvania, and Pope Leo XII set out to prove the Bible inaccurate. He said he would "dig up the evidence" that the Book was a product of ambitious monks, and not the book from heaven it claimed to be. After 15 years he so changed his mind that his books, starting with "Saint Paul the traveler and the Roman Citizen" 1896, written for more than 20 years have with stood the test of time and not one having been refuted to now. Ramsay's own archaeological findings convinced him of the reliability of the Bible and the truth it taught.

Even Non-Christians acknowledge there is something hard to explain in the mystery of scriptures:

"I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene." Albert Einstein

"But if we apply the same sort of criteria that we would apply to any other ancient literary sources, then the evidence is firm and plausible enough to necessitate the conclusion that the tomb was indeed empty." Michael Grant, author of The Twelve Caesars.

And yet people still think the Bible to be a con of some sort. I guess too many saw the Da Vinci Code.

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StressFree
small city, Kalmar Sweden

Posted: May 24, 2008, 2:52 PM CST

MikeHD wrote:

I do find it interesting that so many people believe the Bible to have been rewritten (translated into another language does not constitute rewriting as the translation can still be examined), changed, or somehow tampered with. The more you study its pages, the more you see the miracle of how it all goes together. If all the changes people claim to have happened really did happen, then it would be a huge mess by now.

I also find it interested that in almost 2000 years no one has ever found any part of the Bible to be wrong in a generally accepted way. Not even by the most hostile critics. The Bible, if it were not true, should have been dissected and torn apart and all its fallacies splashed across the headlines of a thousand papers by now, but it has not.

Put that together with some of the greatest minds concluding that the Bible is exactly what it claims to me, inerrant word of God.

Here is are some examples:

Ralph Waldo Emerson said "The unique impression of Jesus Upon mankind - whose name is not so much written as ploughed into the history of the world - is proof of the subtle virtue of this infusion."

Alfred Lord Tennyson said "The Lord from Heaven born of a village girl, carpenter's son, Wonderful, Prince of Peace, the mighty God."

Robert Louis Stevenson said "When Christ came into my life, I came about like a well handled ship."

Sir Lionell Luckoo , listed in the Guinness Book of Records, the "world's most successful lawyer", knighted TWICE bye the queen of England said "I have spent more than 42 years as a defense trial lawyer appearing in many parts of the world... I say unequivocally the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves no doubt."

Sir William Ramsey , one of the most famous archaeologist of his time, recipient of Gold Medals from the Royal Geographical Society, the Royal Scottish Geographical Society, the University of Pennsylvania, and Pope Leo XII set out to prove the Bible inaccurate. He said he would "dig up the evidence" that the Book was a product of ambitious monks, and not the book from heaven it claimed to be. After 15 years he so changed his mind that his books, starting with "Saint Paul the traveler and the Roman Citizen" 1896, written for more than 20 years have with stood the test of time and not one having been refuted to now. Ramsay's own archaeological findings convinced him of the reliability of the Bible and the truth it taught.

Even Non-Christians acknowledge there is something hard to explain in the mystery of scriptures:

"I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene." Albert Einstein

"But if we apply the same sort of criteria that we would apply to any other ancient literary sources, then the evidence is firm and plausible enough to necessitate the conclusion that the tomb was indeed empty." Michael Grant , author of The Twelve Caesars.

And yet people still think the Bible to be a con of some sort. I guess too many saw the Da Vinci Code.

Connect the dots. Get your head out of the bible's ass. True it has truth, but stop trying to push it down our throats. The bible is not the whole entire truth. Connect it. It is part of the truth. That is all. No need to be so subjective about it. It is no different than other religions....

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 3:06 PM CST

StressFree wrote:

Connect the dots. Get your head out of the bible's ass. True it has truth, but stop trying to push it down our throats. The bible is not the whole entire truth. Connect it. It is part of the truth. That is all. No need to be so subjective about it. It is no different than other religions....

It is absolutely different than ALL other religions. Not one other religion makes the claims that the Bible does. Not one.

Jesus said He was God. What is that? He must be crazy right?

And if the Bible is true, then why wouldn't I want my head up its ass? Wouldn't it better to be there than sitting pretty with something that is not true?

I am sorry if you find it offense, but I just try to defend what I believe. That is all. I only want to defend.

I know that Christianity splits us like it has history. If I truly believe, I do not feel I have a choice but to defend that belief.

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StressFree
small city, Kalmar Sweden

Posted: May 24, 2008, 3:09 PM CST

MikeHD wrote:

It is absolutely different than ALL other religions. Not one other religion makes the claims that the Bible does. Not one.

Jesus said He was God. What is that? He must be crazy right?

And if the Bible is true, then why wouldn't I want my head up its ass? Wouldn't it better to be there than sitting pretty with something that is not true?

I am sorry if you find it offense, but I just try to defend what I believe. That is all. I only want to defend.

I know that Christianity splits us like it has history. If I truly believe, I do not feel I have a choice but to defend that belief.

He said he was the son of God...get your facts together silly....

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alabamabebe
Banks of the Warrior River, Alabama USA

Posted: May 24, 2008, 3:10 PM CST

RobbieM wrote:

Being a fundamentalist Christian is as scary to me as seeing a fundamentalist of any other kind.

I don't think the religious lobby have any right to involved with legislation making or government whatsoever.

Now that is scary.

Now I agree with that. That's why Huckabee running for pres was so scary, a preacher turned politician?! :shudder:

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StressFree
small city, Kalmar Sweden

Posted: May 24, 2008, 3:19 PM CST

MikeHD wrote:

It is absolutely different than ALL other religions. Not one other religion makes the claims that the Bible does. Not one.

Jesus said He was God. What is that? He must be crazy right?

And if the Bible is true, then why wouldn't I want my head up its ass? Wouldn't it better to be there than sitting pretty with something that is not true?

I am sorry if you find it offense, but I just try to defend what I believe. That is all. I only want to defend.

I know that Christianity splits us like it has history. If I truly believe, I do not feel I have a choice but to defend that belief.

Oh, Jesus never asked any of his followers to defend his truth. It's your choice, not your job. That is not being a true Christian.

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Aries01
Dublin, Dublin Ireland

Posted: May 25, 2008, 5:26 AM CST

MikeHD......I respect your will to fight what you believe in.. passion is a good thing.. am a little confused though.. you seem to be quite militant about the believing in Jesus (that he dies for us etc) and less bothered about the other aspects of his existence and teaching which were equally important, that is to love your neighbour as yourself, to be kind, compassionate and forgiving... Jesus came to sacrifice himself for our sins... AND to show us the way... he did so in the best way possible... by example.... He loved us (unconditionally) and asked us to do the same... he said (can't remember where) that there were two commandments... (i'll have to paraphrase) that was to love god the father with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbour as yourself... being a good person is a very important aspect of this.. he also spoke of his dislike of hipocrites.. he doesn't want people who worship him, and play by the rules, but who would turn their back on their neighbour.. gonna have to check out my bible for quotes and post them later.. I love Jesus (passionately), because I think he is an AMAZING person.. as the manly expression of God, he was perfect.. perfect in his love for all things.. if we all achieved even a portion of his capacity for love, kindness, compassion and forgivness.. there would be no wars, and no hatred or fear, we would all live in harmony.. JMV

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:26 AM CST

StressFree wrote:

He said he was the son of God...get your facts together silly....

"I and [My] Father are one." John 10:30

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father" John 14:9

"But Jesus answered them, 'My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.' Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:17 &18

"You shall have no other gods before Me." Exodus 20:3
" the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:'You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.'" Revelation 4:11 (person sitting on the throne was Jesus)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[fn4] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

Jesus claimed to be God. That is the main reason He was crucified.

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StressFree
small city, Kalmar Sweden

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:29 AM CST

MikeHD wrote:

"I and [My] Father are one." John 10:30

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father" John 14:9

"But Jesus answered them, 'My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.' Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. " John 5:17 &18

"You shall have no other gods before Me." Exodus 20:3
" the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:'You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.'" Revelation 4:11 (person sitting on the throne was Jesus)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[fn4] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

Jesus claimed to be God. That is the main reason He was crucified.

No, he is just claiming to share the same source of God.

He is not claiming to be God.

Nice job trying to spin that one. Try again.

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StressFree
small city, Kalmar Sweden

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:31 AM CST

[quote=MikeHDGod was His Father, making Himself equal with God. " John 5:17 &18
.[/quote]

John could have viewed this in his own way. He saw what he wanted to see....You see why religion can stir things up and lead to wars....

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:34 AM CST

StressFree wrote:

Oh, Jesus never asked any of his followers to defend his truth. It's your choice, not your job. That is not being a true Christian.

"Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.'” Matthew 28:18-20

"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." Second Timothy 4:2-5

Jesus told me to make the truth known.

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:37 AM CST

[quote=StressFree]

MikeHD wrote:

"I and

No, he is just claiming to share the same source of God. He is not claiming to be God. Nice job trying to spin that one. Try again.

No, read it again. You are missing it. And I do not have enough time to fill this thread with pages of other scriptures saying the same thing.

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:50 AM CST

Aries01 wrote:

MikeHD......I respect your will to fight what you believe in.. passion is a good thing.. am a little confused though.. you seem to be quite militant about the believing in Jesus (that he dies for us etc) and less bothered about the other aspects of his existence and teaching which were equally important, that is to love your neighbour as yourself, to be kind, compassionate and forgiving... Jesus came to sacrifice himself for our sins... AND to show us the way... he did so in the best way possible... by example.... He loved us (unconditionally) and asked us to do the same... he said (can't remember where) that there were two commandments... (i'll have to paraphrase) that was to love god the father with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbour as yourself... being a good person is a very important aspect of this.. he also spoke of his dislike of hipocrites.. he doesn't want people who worship him, and play by the rules, but who would turn their back on their neighbour.. gonna have to check out my bible for quotes and post them later.. I love Jesus (passionately), because I think he is an AMAZING person.. as the manly expression of God, he was perfect.. perfect in his love for all things.. if we all achieved even a portion of his capacity for love, kindness, compassion and forgivness.. there would be no wars, and no hatred or fear, we would all live in harmony.. JMV

Aries. Thank you so much for starting this thread, and please understand it is not my intention to present myself as militant. I just do what I can to help people understand. Jesus calls for us to come to Him completely. That is what I am saying. I believe in what you are saying to be true, but to ignore the other half puts me in danger of being like the rich young ruler. He obeyed the commandments from birth, but Jesus turned him away because he would not give up everything for Jesus (Luke 18:22). Jesus said His love would be so radical that members of your own family would become your worse enemies (Matthew 10:35-36)

I believe that only by following Jesus with all of our heart, can we truly love our neighbor. He calls us to become a "living sacrifice". (Romans 12:1)

It is only out of love that I come on here and make my defenses, so that people can read, and maybe someone will believe. I do not shout or call names. I do not mean to be disrespectful. I just mean to tell and defend the truth.

I hope you understand.

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MikeHD
Dallas, Texas USA

Posted: May 26, 2008, 9:59 AM CST

[quote=StressFree]

MikeHDGod was His Father, making Himself equal with God. " John 5:17 &18
.[/quote wrote:

John could have viewed this in his own way. He saw what he wanted to see....You see why religion can stir things up and lead to wars....

People choose to go to war for many reasons, and religion has been blamed for many of them. But one thing you have to have to go to war, and it is the same for ALL war, is money. And every war that has ever been fought has made someone very rich, or even richer than they were before. Religion causes disagreements, but money causes war.

People can choose to disagree and not go to war, can't they?

Why would you get so angry with me because you disagree with what I believe?

Why do I get accused of shoving things down people's throats, when all I do is tell you what I believe?

And if you do not agree, then why do you listen?

I state what I believe, and then defend it. I try not to go further than that.

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