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Ok, but I lean on the side of tens of thousands of years of Mans stupidity.......(not to be taken literally, it is tongue in cheek!)

I agree with you there...we should all do more to help people in need with our own capabilities. But a little bit of prayer thrown in can't hurt, and for those who cannot offer help, their prayers are for the best wishes for a good outcome.

Aye, what a tome! One (well, moi) could write mucho on the topic…which, for me, would basically amount to a lot of pondering verses some profound wisdom.

My idea of what prayer is/isn’t was severely shaken a few years back, and basically left me, well at first pissed, but then it settled into an appreciation that prayer is rather a mystery. Will we (can we?) really ever “understand” it? Me thinks not.

But to answer your question, Jeff, does it make any logical sense?...maybe it’s logical to feel a need to pray to an omniscient being (maybe we’re hard-wired that way…makes sense if you look across the globe over history and see a semblance of prayer weaved throughout the cultures)…maybe it’s logical to express the “prayer of your heart” to the One you feel knows and understands, as any healthy relationship would have within it.
So to over simplify, I’ve come to experience prayer as a term meaning “talking with God about what's on your heart". And, yes, whether with/to God or another human, I think talking in and of itself “bears fruit”.

And therein lies the crux...to what extent is God's hand in the outcome of the prayer? Well, this chica believes in free-will...all the way...and I believe that God honors our, well, God-given right to free will...hence the ugly things of earth that hurt us.

JMB...great thread, Jeff

I believe Prayer dose work! When it's in alinement with god! If someone is suffering well of course your going to pray they get out of there suffering thats just human nature! As far as praying for events and favor that all depends on how strong your faith level is! is!....

I think prayers are the same as positive thoughts and positive energy that can affect the outcome for someone. It's like the universe is sending positive energy to that person.

What did they do before they had newspapers?

I like to pray for my family, friends and those I feel need prayers.

I feel it's sending out positive energy to them.

I don't see it as influencing their lives negatively, rather the opposite.

Also, as I am not "GOD", I don't have his power and he has given us each free will to choose, what we do and how we live. No one can take that from us. Living our lives how we do it, it always, OUR CHOICE.

I believe in the power of prayer, tho think, if it's not for you, it will pass you, but if it is for you, it won't pass you........

My thought for the day..............

Have a good one,

Minx!

must have been a b*tch chiselling it all out on a stone tablet for three days in a row

Why not test that theory... say a little prayer... nothing to lose... I can try too.. what illness do you have?? lets test this theory ... I'm not kidding..

power of prayer= power of positive thinking!!


JMO, of course

We should pray to bring ourselves in line with God's will, not to bring God in line with ours. That being said, I do believe that prayer can bring us strength in times of need. I know when I was lying in the hospital after my accident, there were times when I could feel the prayers of others. I don't remember ever consciously praying for myself, because I knew God was already there with me, but there were times when I felt his peace and strength come over me, and I truly believe it was when prayers were being made on my behalf. I really don't know how people can live through the crises of life without the belief in something bigger than themselves.

Praying for our own selfish desires is not really prayer. It's like a child asking for every toy they see in a supermarket. If the parent is wise, they are not going to get everything they ask for. Our God is wise, and is not going to grant us everything we want, only what is best for us. I think sometimes he does wait to be asked however. There's a verse that says, you have not because you ask not. But the best prayer is the one asking for knowledge of his will for us.

And before you ask, no, I can't prove any of this. But I believe because I've experienced it, that's all the proof I need. I can't make anyone else believe in something they haven't experienced.

Please forgive the intrusion, as you all seem to be familiar with each other. After reading down through the thread, there were a lot of ideas put forth that were interesting to me. However, if the bible is correct (just suppose it is for the sake of argument), then the God of the bible would be an infinite being. By that I mean that He would be all-powerful, all-knowing, and present everywhere, which would be quite infinite. He wouldn't be bound by the same degeneration as we are, i.e, we die, our minds grow feeble, we lose control of emotion, etc. So when we, as finite, limited beings, look at an infinite God, and try to apply our understanding or rationale, which just doesn't work. We try to put God in this little box for our own understanding so we can then dismiss it.
As far as prayer goes, the whole point is that we were given the privilege to speak to God through faith. Do I think that praying to God will change the course of His actions? Of course I do. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Besides, do you like talking with your children? Do you laugh at things they say?, Do they make you think? Do they say things that make you happy that you are their parent? Why then would God feel differently? Is it because that idea won't fit in that same small box we try to put Him in with our limited understanding?

Thank you, someone who understands.

No disrespect intended, but in reading through this thread I haven't seen anyone deal with the question: Should the fate of someone rest on what basically is a popular vote?

That is, let's say someone's been diagnosed with cancer. Concerned individuals offer prayers to God to make her well. Should God count the "prayer votes," and make a decision based on the number or sincerity of the prayers? So if Cancer Patient A receives only 3 prayer votes, God shrugs and thinks: "Well, shoot, that just doesn't seem like enough prayer. Patient A has to go"?

The above strikes me as an inescapable logical consequence of the idea that praying for someone helps them by influencing God's will: it in essence reduces a person's health/survival to a popularity contest.

Does anyone here have a problem reconciling an absolutely just being with such a practice? Can you truly imagine such a being regarding the value of human lives as a function of a popular vote?

Wouldn't it make more sense for such a being to employ its own infinitely greater wisdom in making a decision regarding Patient A's state (or simply letting the reality It created determine the result, as it presumably does with almost everything else - since it hardly seems sensible to suppose that God intervenes in all natural events)?

Dismissing the question by referring to God's mysterious "ways" fail because 1) this is a question of basic syllogistic reasoning, and 2) (more importantly) it could very well be that such mysterious ways could include God ignoring prayer. It is a strictly human judgment that prayer affects God's will. So the question remains: What reason do we have to believe that God's actions should be or are impacted by our prayers?

As for sending out "positive energy" (e.g., Dana), that isn't my question. I'm only addressing the issue of "petitioning the lord with prayer." (Please sing it with me;-)

Jeff

In a word, no, that's not the way God works. It's not a popularity contest.



It's not that God is impacted by our prayers, but that we are impacted by them. I can't explain it any further than I did in my previous post. All I can relay is my own experience.

no but it appears to work that way. Popularity, which, could be also construed as "people needing me" ... might influence that persons will to recover. Only the intent to pray is ever posted and methinks some are affected by attention and or popularity.

So people are impacted by our prayers on a person-to-person basis, having nothing to do with God per se?

That is, God is not part of the equation; our prayers affect people directly much in the same way that physically helping someone or donating money to a cause helps them? Am I understanding you correctly, Bebe?

Right, B, certainly in the real world popularity/ human attention could affect someone's health or survival, but the question is whether an allegedly infinitely just being would make decisions based on such criteria.

NO

That is a silly question, but valid. I have been thinking about making a post in this thread that would make sense....my views and theories conflict each other when it concerns prayers, positive thoughts, our God Source in us and outside of us.....My views on determinism (the view that human actions are entirely controlled by previous conditions, operating under laws of nature), fatalism (acceptance of the belief that all events are predetermined and inevitable), and predestination (the act of God foreordaining all things gone before and to come....destiny/fate) really do clash on this subject. I am still thinking about this and waiting for a sign or answer from within and the Source or spirit guide to respond properly....

But back to your question. No! A million prayers or no prayers will not change anything in some instances..it's up to the individual soul and will. Prayers can be harnessed for help, but sometimes it is just not meant to be....People like to think that prayers or positive thought helps, but it's all coincidence if the person becomes healthy....like yay...our prayers helped, but when the person does not become healthy, then people will say it was God's will....It's a complicated issue that I am working on and have been working on for a long time.....