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Many verses tell devotees to avoid those (turn their back on) people who are as Aries says 'skeptical'. There are also verses about one god, no other gods before me, as well as a number of verses that people like to quote here with regard to punishing those who don't beleive in that one god and or are whats the word, heathens? I forget. The bible is contains many verses that encourage seperatism and alienation.

The extrapolation is congruent as is the inference of the catholic church being the pillar of that god. Scripture is generally the basis for dogma, interpretations made loosely to fit the situation. I could indeed quote the scripture Aries posted on this but it's unnnecessary, the passage only serves to aleinate and psychologicaly imprison the devotee... keeping them in the fold. You're right many religions do such things.

The roman empire, the spanish and many other kings, etc have slaughtered on that basis alone, because people weren't christian or the right kind of christian. Dogma or exact text, it's there and anyone acting on behalf of that text (gods word remember), the pope is alledgedly acting on behalf of god... something the roman catholic -christian church has done with impunity. Whether it is exactly scripted that way or not, the pope speaks for god, as does the bible, which he interprets as he chooses ... funny george bush does that with the constitution too.

.. the person who learns something wins

o each and his/her own! Just enjoy your personal universe. What you believe to be true, is indeed true on a very intricate/cosmic level that I cannot explain in this post...sorry robbie and BN....more circumstantial knowledge is not going to change anything btw robbie.

Just because you fail to believe in the way the Romans worked it does not mean that you do not have faith or god exsists or does not?

You do understand the difference?

We're talking historical "proof".And as for the Spartans there were survivors and what befel their civilisation is well accounted for.Whats certainly true is mant stood against a tyrant and died to the last man.

The victor that day paid a very heavy price later on in history, where the army of the invaders and the rule of the tyrant were basically put to the sword.

What's the "checkmate" about anyway? Unless you can either bring back the dead to life nobody will know the truth, but the ones to look for if you want to try are Titus and Josephus.

I'd be interested what they has to say and what they sacked from the Library.It cant all be in the catacombs? Or maybe it is...........

Titus and Josephus

neither were contemporary writers of Jesus' time.

Where does Obama fit in... He's a Messiah too.

I bet huffington post would say Obma is a contemporary author.

Exactly, and the average lifespan was say 35 years, so it will be interesting to see how someone managed to write all these things down from other cultures and belief systems, stir it all up in a pot and call it modern christianity.

The old version was better and more simple, and you certainly didnt need a church to pray in or taxes, or threatened or tortured for your faith.Having a centralised controlled faith gave the keys to the church the power to scare the life out of the populace while they were alive and threaten them with unspeakable torture at the hands of the beings down below if they didnt cooperate with the churches will.

There are no writers at the time of Jesus', and the nearest we an get is a Captured scholar and a man who became Emperor of Rome.

People your really stretching credibility to suggest a faithful rendition of the original documents when after a lifetime the interests of an Emperor and a slave scholar are to be taken as absolute truth.Especially when the events contained in the bible are pulled from events mentioned by the Celts, Sumerian's and Egyptians to name but a few and somehow managed to end up in one book....hmmn.

Unless someone digs up a time machine and the two nearest dead guys to ask how the documents were written then nobody will know the truth, but as goose clearly and correctly points out this was still after the time of Jesus.

What clearly the bible is, is a clever but contradictory book, that's all.And if god wanted his words written down in a book i'm sure he wouldn't have needed the help of Titus And Josephus to ensure it was all down pat nice and safe in the hands of a fascist state.

He has to get elected first then deliver all those promised and change the world in one term!If he gets in i fear there are a lot of people waiting to be disappointed.

The same happened when Tony Blair swept a totally corrupt government aside.Britain realy did expect great things.

And look what happened.

I fear Obama will deliver the same, but if he does get in i hope he brings a sense of honour to the office of president without going for the messiah halo.

I will keep my eyes crossed, and my fingers for whoever gets in actually does something good for the people rather than lie and patronise them.

You know....all of this intellectualizing isn't necessary.

If somebody comes up to you and asks if you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ...don't get all hissy and try to outsmart them...just answer, "Yes, I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Very Personal!" then start singing, "He touched me, Oh, He touched me, And oh the joy that floods my soul. Something happened and now I know, He touched me..."

They probably won't bother you any more.

I agree and not only that, but the event would have been very localized since they didn't have the kind of media we do today.

I want to know what happened to things Jesus himself would have written. He came from a wealthy family and would have been literate.

He did write in the dirt that one time, people have been speculating over that for centuries.

the many ways believers act when confronted with facts is astounding!! But if youre bothered I suggest it isn't the answers or quetion you get, its because they can only answer with scrpture, usually a non-sequetor. Dis-ease is an internal conflict and bothered is dis-ease

Actually I just read some scripture about talking to fool,don't because they will look smarter then another verse that says talk to fools so you look smarter I swear it could easily be Monty Python material.

What was funny about that Al?

Don't knock it if you ain't got it.

The majority of the books of the NT were written by people who lived in Jesus time and knew him personally, and wrote the books later on. I think they might have been too busy during the three years of his ministry to spend a lot of time writing. And have you ever heard of perspective? They may have written some notes during the time, but it wasn't until after that they were able to put the happenings in context.

JMO

The book of Proverbs (one of my favorites)


NKJV Chapter26:4Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest he be wise in his own eyes.


It's interesting that these verses occur together in the text. Sometimes one needs to speak up...other times it's not such a good idea. That's how I interpret it.

It's all about balance, and common sense. That first part is why I usually stay out of religious arguments. Good interpretation Dio.

I like to be the fool that makes the other wise guy look foolish too

Sand in the vagina so to speak

And a very good job you do of it too!

contemporary writers would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John,Peter, and Paul , also there are books by Thomas, each of these men were said to be contemporaries of Jesus ,who spent @ least 3 yrs with him and were eye witnesses of his daily actions, but evidently that is not what you are looking for . good luck in your search

would like to make correction Paul ws not a daily companion of Jesus
Paul was one of the ruling class trained as a Pharisee and a Sadducee
which is from what I understand quiet rare and would take a special intelligence to accomplish

-- so Paul was trained in Philosophy and Law and was practicing in the Jewish ruling party ,at the time of Jesus, and was an enemy of Jesus, and set out to kill any one who believed in this upstart religion that was not totally in line with what he believed. yet he ended up being one of the greatest advocates of Jesus

No, that's wrong. No biblical writings date back to the time of jesus. Only after his death. And the Gospels are "according to...." Not "written by"....