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I am just wondering about something, maybe other ladies on here will know what I mean.

Time and again, in the "getting to know each other" private chats with men, I've been accused of being

1) too "cold"
2) too "independent".

MOST of the times the said conclusions follow after I've stated my various hobbies, travels, interests and other things I do for fun. The "cold" comment is usually after I don't return the "kisses" already on the first or second chat.

I'm just wondering what the deal is with that. I was always under the impression that men don't particularly like clingy women, and on the contrary like it when women have interests of their own and are self-sufficient. I also thought that they needed space for themselves (as do women, no doubt).

Secondly, I'm wondering what "independent" means. It makes me want to ask - as opposed to what? I fail to see what other options I have. We don't live in some pre-historic times when I'd be able or interested in staying in my family's nest until a guy decided he wanted me for his wife. So being "independent" and keeping myself occupied with interesting things (studies, hobbies etc) seems like the only option really, unless I want to just sit by the window and wave my embroidered handkerchief at people passing by.

Thirdly, how is it possible to show more warmth through an MSN chat window, particularly for someone who I don't even know yet? Am I really supposed to say what I don't feel yet, and probably won't feel for a while yet (or maybe never for this person)? Sorry, but I don't become emotionally attached to someone after 3 chats, and perhaps it is indeed just my 'cold nature', although I sure thought otherwise. (I hardly know many people as passionate as I am ) I just don't want to give out "kisses", "hugs" or anything else (cos I wouldn't do that in real life, either).

Not complaining, more like thinking aloud. Gentlemen need not reply, I already know your verdict. [where's a bluestocking emoticon] Gals, I need some sympathy....

Why need we not reply??????

Please don't generalise......

There are those of us I assure you that agree totally with what you are saying.

Trou experience it is true that a lot of men seem to still prefer the subordinate image that has ben bestowed on women for so long.

Keep your chin up, and again, please don't just generalise in this situation. Just as much as equality has taken years to materialise, possible men's attitude is still undergoing the change.

All I am going to say...is that I hate messenger chats. Audry, don't sweat those dudes....are you talking about European dudes?

ok so with the hugs and the kisses.... its one of those actions speak louder than words... its virtual we know that so its easier and more playful to give them out here... they are looking for some sign that your interested I would think....

As far as the independent thing... people need to feel needed... so you need to help them understand where they would fit into your life. I am very independent as well... I have had a few relationships break up because of it..

I think we tend to have a turtle shell around us.. and we hide our vulnerabilities inside the shell so that they can't be easily seen. Learn to share them with those you are interested in and you may be surprised... you just might find someone that can balance out your vulnerabilities with their strengths.

This dating stuff is hard work!

Don't sweat it....If someone doesn't like you just the way you are then...NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly!!!

Darlynda... Thanks :)

Kurzita, thank you for your thoughtful response... I do very much value men for what they are and for what they can give us. Also, about being equal, I'm beginning to suspect that maybe they feel I am trying to be superior? (which is not so at all)


StressFree, they're from all over the place - and usually the ones with warm terms of endearment (and expecting the same) are the ones from "warmer" countries.... What's sad is that they're sometimes people that I would be really interested in, but our temperaments in this sense don't match, I guess.

moonfoxinthesnow:


A very good point! and I do try to show that I'm interested, but I feel it's unfair to say what I don't feel (The other side of being "honest", eh.)



That's exactly what I'm looking for, and I even state them right away sometimes, and still people think I'm "too strong" and "too independent".

Scottishlass & Hugz_n_Kissez:


I totally agree, but it just makes me wonder how many more potentially compatible people will be totally mislead.

And about where he'd fit into my life - I'd really hope that it would all evolve nice and slowly, and by the time we decided to be together, we'd have no doubts as to where we fit into each other's lives. I wouldn't expect the other person to drop all his hobbies and pastimes, and I know I couldn't do that with mine. It would all just have to fit together somehow (magically ).

I hear a lot of men online and in RL complaining about clingy women. I suspect those are the ones who want us to work 60 hours a week, then come home and be a mute Donna Reed.

Call me 'clingy' but when I come home after a looong work week, I want to 'cling' to your arm while your on the couch for a few minutes watching the game, before I change into my Donna Reed costume.

I dunno, there are those among our gender that find independence very attractive.

If you're having these kinds of problems, Audry, I'd say you simply haven't met the right guy or guys yet.

I have to disagree with laying your vulerabilities out there right away.......there are so many players who look for the weaknesses in others and then play upon them to gain their confidences. I'd say give that more time before divulging those. A truly insiteful person can sometimes see past the 'shell' we use to protect ourselves and understand why we feel the need to not open up so freely.

As far as the kisses and hugs go...........I think if it is made very clear from the beginning that you are in a 'getting to know one another' stage (building a friendship first), they can be given and received in just that manner. But if you are still hesitant, perhaps you could try these............


on the cheek for my dear friend

or in a non-commital way


Just a thought..............

I am wondering, can independence be confused with bossiness and/or qualities/inclinations of a leader? That would be totally wrong in my case, because I would happily let a worthy leader lead me, in a great many ways. The fact that I've been keeping busy waiting for that person in my life, doesn't mean I'm bossy or even worse.... Also, being independent doesn't mean that I'd suddenly get off the couch at 10 pm and walk out the front door without as much as saying a word... (I'm just trying to imagine what men picture in their minds when they fear women are "too independent")

Indeed... And a not very insiteful person (such as myself) could just give it a little time and not rush things or judgements...



Great ideas, thanks! (I love the last one) I have no problems giving kisses, real or virtual, to people that I feel are, or could be, my friends. It's when after just a couple of chats the person sends kisses goodnight, I can't return it, and they assume I am "too cold", have some "barriers", I "can't feel love", etc etc etc. Sheesh.

I like your 'Vette, my boss has one like that, currently in restoration.

I'm wondering how many I've run off because they assume something I'm not!

How is it possible you can be perceived in all these ways and them still find you worth pursuing? I guess it has to do with gender perceptions. Men (and I'm generalizing here) can't stand something that denies or negates their preconceptions, and simply must penetrate that mystery somehow.

Two or three chats? I've barely asked your real name by that point, let alone throwing kisses and hugs around willy-nilly.

Chin up, chica. This is not all men, just the ones you been chatting with to date.

As long as you are being the real you...who cares what they assume....You don't want someone who wants you to be different...you want someone who likes you for you....independent...not willing to throw out unwarranted affection because you just started talking...and the likes....someone who likes yopu regardless will respect those things in you and not find them a problem!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely, I feel the same way (although I had to google up Donna Reed, I must admit )

It shouldn't matter because they aren't right for you.


Think this way, the more men you scare off, the closer you get to finding the one. Imagine what women who fall in love with eveeeeeeeeeeeery man, giving their all (money, heart and cats), would say, after they realised all 3037 of them, were wrong!



I take it as a compliment, when a man calls me too independent. He could probably have realised, that i am at least, emotionally independent, as well.

Sounds like those guys are looking for a pet.