Is the capture of Radovan Karadzic a chance for healing for the Balkans?

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DarkDreamer2005 Rochester, Kent, England UK

The Balkans has always been a yard stick for the rest of Europe. From the assasination of Grand Duke Ferdinand, through Ttio's coallition of the unaligned, to the break up of Yugoslavia; the region has always had a knack of showing the cracks in the European idea, and highlighting the differences in all the memeber states.

With the capture of Karadzic, does this mean there will be a chance for wounds of the past to be healed, and a new path forged for the Balkans, and Europe? or will it ignite and highlight the differences?

confused



shipoker55 St. Petersburg, Florida USA
I plead ignorance on this issue. But at least I admit it!
DarkDreamer2005 Rochester, Kent, England UK
shipoker55: I plead ignorance on this issue. But at least I admit it!


lol...okay.. Its just it is quite an important thing I think. Karadzic has been on the run for 13 years, and is likely to be the first European politician convicted of genocide since the 2nd world war.... just thought it would be interesting to get peoples views, as it stikes me its an important thing for Europe as a whole...I could be wrong though....wink

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/23/serbia.radovankaradzic
DarkDreamer2005 Rochester, Kent, England UK
laugh ...I am guessing I'm wrong then...no-one cares.....
gongman Carcassone, Midi-Pyrenees France
DarkDreamer2005: ...I am guessing I'm wrong then...no-one cares.....


They do in the EU forums......................professor
DarkDreamer2005 Rochester, Kent, England UK
gongman: They do in the EU forums......................


Ahh...I don't have a button for that...I may have to search...;) I forgot International means American lol... is that an oxymoron?
DarkDreamer2005: Ahh...I don't have a button for that...I may have to search...;) I forgot International means American lol... is that an oxymoron?



giggle



Hopefully it will, and if they catch Mladic as well, even a bigger chance maybe...
But it seems to be igniting something, with protests etc...
gingerb Letterkenny, Donegal Ireland
DarkDreamer2005: Ahh...I don't have a button for that...I may have to search...;) I forgot International means American lol... is that an oxymoron?


You hit it right on the head there.

We have some Americans telling europeans they don't know anything about American politics when in actual fact Europeans take and interest and are educated enough to comment intelligently on American current affairs at least, while we then get comments here like go to the "EU forums" from people like this who can't be arsed to look at anything politically current worldwide that doesn't have America interfering in it.

Talk about blinkered!!!


wine



BnaturAl Sarnia, Ontario Canada
gingerb: You hit it right on the head there.

We have some Americans telling europeans they don't know anything about American politics when in actual fact Europeans take and interest and are educated enough to comment intelligently on American current affairs at least, while we then get comments here like go to the "EU forums" from people like this who can't be arsed to look at anything politically current worldwide that doesn't have America interfering in it.

Talk about blinkered!!!


jaw drop







boxing
gingerb Letterkenny, Donegal Ireland
BnaturAl: boxing


My brother in law, an Irish policeman, was killed in Sarajavo while on peacekeeping dutes as a direct result of what this man caused, leaving a wilfe and 3 small children.

While Kardzic led a life of comfort/ luxury/ peace, in Belgrade, and his grandchildren live comfortably America, a lot more than the thousands he massacred got killed trying to reinstate peace there.

The only way there is gong to be any inclusion for this eastern european state is to have justice seen to be done for the families of the thousands he murdered.
gingerb: My brother in law, an Irish policeman, was killed in Sarajavo while on peacekeeping dutes as a direct result of what this man caused, leaving a wilfe and 3 small children.

While Kardzic led a life of comfort/ luxury/ peace, in Belgrade, and his grandchildren live comfortably America, a lot more than the thousands he massacred got killed trying to reinstate peace there.

The only way there is gong to be any inclusion for this eastern european state is to have justice seen to be done for the families of the thousands he murdered.




thumbs up
gingerb Letterkenny, Donegal Ireland
Olsojente: Hopefully it will, and if they catch Mladic as well, even a bigger chance maybe...
But it seems to be igniting something, with protests etc...


I hope they get Mladic too and protest is good as long as it carries people forward to positive change. Everyone protests when change happens, but hopefully they will see sense on this and not have it end up with even morelives lost and a tentative peace lost for years.wine
ttom500 St. Cloud, Florida USA
I care....I was on a US DoD Consulting Task advising during Kosovo
that help to bring down Milosovic and the other Serbs.....like Karadzic.
So I follow the various hunts that they have going on for them.

I find hard to believe that in a modestly small country like Serbia, that it has taken 13 years to catch these guys....with only one remaining.

Almost I see the Serbian population reaction to his capture. Say myself, Europe still has troubles in the region.

Milosovic, Karadzic and the others did not have much power back then, unless there was a significant segment of the Serbian population in support. That you still have groups of them supporting
men that are out of power, on the run with well established and evidenced crimes...needs to tell Europe something.

Don't get me wrong.....there is no statue of limitations to the crimes against humanity that they commited. So 13 years or 50 years.....justice will catch up here. So, I applaud the capture.

Karadzic was smart, used various desguise skills, and knew who and where in Serbia, he could get help to remain free these years. But the
world is not going to allow mass enthnc cleansing. When you go that route in life......you are a criminal and deserves what one gets.






EnSilencio Almunecar, Andalucia Spain
Olsojente: Hopefully it will, and if they catch Mladic as well, even a bigger chance maybe...
But it seems to be igniting something, with protests etc...


I was just watching it on the news (Romanian tv). The protestors are staunch supporters but few in numbers and the general opinion is rather that they have had political protection of some kind to have stayed hidden for so long. There does not seem to be any bigger support to keep him sheltered.

Lets see, will be interesting.

And yes, it is a big thing for the European politics. I am just wondering how far back and down the ranks this can and will be applied.

I am of course thinking of the upcoming trial of the ObL driver over seas. If they get the top, they get the roots. Now - then we will have riots. uh oh
Conrad73 Lonesome Town Zurich, Zrich Switzerland
gingerb: You hit it right on the head there.

We have some Americans telling europeans they don't know anything about American politics when in actual fact Europeans take and interest and are educated enough to comment intelligently on American current affairs at least, while we then get comments here like go to the "EU forums" from people like this who can't be arsed to look at anything politically current worldwide that doesn't have America interfering in it.

Talk about blinkered!!!
dunno confused uh oh
gingerb Letterkenny, Donegal Ireland
ttom500: I.

Milosovic, Karadzic and the others did not have much power back then, unless there was a significant segment of the Serbian population in support. That you still have groups of them supporting
men that are out of power, on the run with well established and evidenced crimes...needs to tell Europe something.

When you go that route in life......you are a criminal and deserves what one gets.


This is the stage where it could go all awry because of exactly what you described. They have been hidden by supporters so long they are like urban heros and that is a dangerous situation for future peace. It could turn into a Northern Ireland situation all over again all to easily and erupt into more bloodshed for years with people taking sides all over again.thumbs up
ttom500 St. Cloud, Florida USA
EnSilencio: I was just watching it on the news (Romanian tv). The protestors are staunch supporters but few in numbers and the general opinion is rather that they have had political protection of some kind to have stayed hidden for so long. There does not seem to be any bigger support to keep him sheltered.

Lets see, will be interesting.

And yes, it is a big thing for the European politics. I am just wondering how far back and down the ranks this can and will be applied.

I am of course thinking of the upcoming trial of the ObL driver over seas. If they get the top, they get the roots. Now - then we will have riots.


Fill me in a little then. How does this effect European politics? It is the arrest of one man. Sure there are these small groups of intense support.

But no politician would say support their positions, today. One of the groups came out saying...they would try to over throw the Serb gov't...that is disturbing.....because it gives me the impression that
violence will be used.

Again a localized problem to Serbia yes? So how does it effect broadly
European politics?

On the trial of the OBL driver. It can be a real mess it seems. He is asking for classified documents that will give up intelligence sources. Seem to have gained a Civilian court hearing following the Miltiary court he is in now. There he can release the classified documents to the public if not handled correctly. And we had a FBI agent come out and say that none of the GITMO detainees recieved any Miranda Rights. Most civilian courts consider Miranda rights to be necessary or they toss the case automatically.
gingerb Letterkenny, Donegal Ireland
ttom500: Fill me in a little then. How does this effect European politics? It is the arrest of one man. Sure there are these small groups of intense support.

But no politician would say support their positions, today. One of the groups came out saying...they would try to over throw the Serb gov't...that is disturbing.....because it gives me the impression that
violence will be used.

Again a localized problem to Serbia yes? So how does it effect broadly
European politics?

On the trial of the OBL driver. It can be a real mess it seems. He is asking for classified documents that will give up intelligence sources. Seem to have gained a Civilian court hearing following the Miltiary court he is in now. There he can release the classified documents to the public if not handled correctly. And we had a FBI agent come out and say that none of the GITMO detainees recieved any Miranda Rights. Most civilian courts consider Miranda rights to be necessary or they toss the case automatically.


It would be too long and convoluted to explain here but here is a link that will explan why it is so important that Serbia stabilizes in order to join the EU. http://www.seio.sr.gov.yu/code/navigate.asp?Id=106#754

They can't join until their government and counrty policies are stable and they badly want to join for the benifits that they will have in better ecomonics, trade and work opportunities for the people there as well as freedom to live in other european countries. While the country is unstable they won't be let join the EU. At the moment they are trying to speed up the process of joining by meeting certain conditions like bringing past offenders to justice and then restabilizing the masses again.



BnaturAl Sarnia, Ontario Canada
gingerb: My brother in law, an Irish policeman, was killed in Sarajavo while on peacekeeping dutes as a direct result of what this man caused, leaving a wilfe and 3 small children.

While Kardzic led a life of comfort/ luxury/ peace, in Belgrade, and his grandchildren live comfortably America, a lot more than the thousands he massacred got killed trying to reinstate peace there.

The only way there is gong to be any inclusion for this eastern european state is to have justice seen to be done for the families of the thousands he murdered.


uh oh I was referring to your american slant ... dunno
gingerb Letterkenny, Donegal Ireland
BnaturAl: I was referring to your american slant ...


So far we have one American contributor to this thread, who has been there. All the others are Europeans, or didn't you notice.

After all the crap I have been reading in threads in the last week about how little Europeans are supposed to know about American politics or current affairs, and being told we are ignorant and shouldn't be listened to regarding American affairs, I just got a bit miffed that it was a bloody cheek considering most of the Europeans here contribute on a regular basis and with quite considerable knowledge on American affairs when it would appear it doesn't work the other way around and Americans could care less about European affairs, much less be knowledgable about them.





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