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For example, "common" people like Tom Paine were considered dangerous when they advocated atheist views, especially since his pamphleteering was reaching ordinary people. Actually, Paine is more properly be described as a deist but his stinging arguments that both Christianity and the Bible were false and many Christian doctrines immoral were enough for him to be labeled an atheist.

France in the 18th century was a fertile breeding ground for atheistic ideas because of the corrupt relationship of the Catholic Church with the French nobility. They both lived luxurious and extravagant lifestyles based on forced taxes exacted on peasants and workers. This led to a great deal of resentment and cynicism against religion and the ruling classes, factors involved in the events leading up to the revolution of 1789.

Atheism became more widespread when it started to permeate popular literature because novels reach a much wider and more middle and low-brow audience than philosophical treatises.

Gustave Flaubert (1821-1880) was clearly influenced by Baron D'Holbach and in his most famous book Madame Bovary had one of his characters, the pharmacist Homais, say the following: "I can't believe in an old boy of a God who takes walks in his garden with a cane in his hand, who puts his friends in the belly of whales, dies uttering a cry, and rises again at the end of three days; things absurd in themselves, and completely opposed, moreover, to all physical laws, which proves to us, by the way, that priests have always wallowed in ignorance, in which they would be glad to engulf the people with them." Later on, Homais debates the local priest and urges him to read Voltaire and D'Holbach. It should be not surprising that Flaubert was criticized for his writings, on the grounds of immorality and impiety.

Another French writer Emile Zola (1840-1902) is quoted as saying: "Civilization will not attain perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest."

These ideas spread across the channel to England and influenced the climate in which Charles Darwin worked, ............................

Unsound thinking: If tha Noah's Ark rose above the mountain tops how did them folks breath caause there ain't no air up thar.

Sound thinking: As the water rose the air rose with it.....there by they were still at sea level.


God exist! If you wll read the Bible and unstand correctly you will see much to show you he does exist and even tells you things that are coming. Now is the time to watch the furture unfold as was told long ago.....plainly to those that understand. if you never seek you are foolish to deny that which you will not seek to see if it is so. Just a foolish person trying to appear smart while being safe in a crowd of like people.


I'm done!

one thing that puzzles me. The bible being a copy of previous beliefs and stories/writings, ever since the Sumerians wrote about such things, gives pause to wonder about something that stands the test of time.

the same story repeats itself in different cultures since about 2500 BC. And the sumerians had information that we are only just verifying today because of technical limitations, so I wonder.

Trish123,

the Churches and groups that cover most of the Earth are not following the true Gospel and are mans Churches. They tell you just believe. I tell you to prove all things....and you can. The Bible is so very simple to understand if you let it interpet itself. The propblem with others is the interpet from there thinking and teach falsely.


The Churches of today their mother at her beginning kicked out the apostles from the churches and antichirst began. The aposltles and the small flock have been hunted and many killed in the name of God. But God's true Church is still around in a few groups.

But I did want to, I wanted to with all my heart, I dearly didnt want the questions that came into my head and I wanted to make those leaps of faith - I truly, honestly very dearly did - even if only to make my Dad happy that I was his good girl - I also went to early morning
mass for ages - all to no avail - the questions kept on coming..... seems I got the bit that understands physics and electronics but the God bits continue to elude me.......... ho hum..........

don't be so ignorant, if I wish to post in 'your' threads I will do so, and if you truly think that is preaching, you did not read it correctly

From the days of the very earlies vestiges of Christianity, before the Bible was even gathered together there have been disagreements on the stories - I really dont want to offend but there are many contradicions and in a school of thought which claims innerancy as it bedrock Im afraid the superstition wears thin in the face of widespread education - was it Calvin who quoted that reason is the enemy of faith/ - a superb quote in my experience.

There was a common beginning.....if one writes it down with changes before the other does...does that make the latter liers. Nope!

I'm not interested in what religious leaders and fascists have done with texts, so much as the constancy of the story since 2500 BC, including extremely unpredictable similarities in cultures that had no contact with each other. And that information is scientific as well. I find it curious that the story has remained in all written literature long before and after AD.

I'm ot sure liars is an appropriate word, though those who edit such texts do so for their own reasons.

Thrish123

Email me! I will give you information where you can get free litature, they will not bother you in any way or ask for money! Their booklets let you learn in sound logic and find your own way. But will help if you need. They will give your magazines, booklets, anything you need to understand. Nothing like what you have ever been involved in before. it takes time to find all the answers.....but you will feel free from the confusion more and more each time you understand a new truth. No one tries to make you believe any way but the facts.

If all were from Noah and his seed then the stories were the same an Adams. IF these stories were common then it would explain the simularities is stories.........others wise "it must be magic"

Even if you think LUCY was the first human....all stories had a common start and were passed from one to another........"maybe because their TV was busted"


Common beginnings!

If cave men invented fire......its been past down to all or we would be cold this winter. How about arrow points and copper smelting and leather making and ipods!

Thank you, I know you mean well but I am free'r from confusion than I have ever been in my entire life - if you read looking for answers which prove your theory, either way you will find those answers. My reasons, over many years have gone from looking in the way you suggest, to searching many other religions and to looking into the whole issue from an historical perspective - all the while I was aware of Atheism looming in the background and it is only since I began to explore this field of knowledge that the answers which I can accept have come to me - maybe you could explore atheism and we could compare notes in say, 12 months time

we have only cursory information of anything before the Sumerians.

conjecture might be helpful in the thought process, brain storming for lack of a better phrase.

The difficulty with these texts is that they point at the ambiguity of theory.

these things evolved and manifested from MAN's consciousness Rilly.

I am saying the texts have some importance in that they are all they similar and from cultures that had no contact, just that there is no certainty in explanation of this.

We must all seek peace in our own way.

did you just out?

from man's consciousness he invent fire.....that knowledge was then past down to many cultures through trade....but it had a common start.

the same is true with knowledge and stories through the same contact of trade. But also could be a common start story passed down through the ages from Noah's children to all nations....just like fire....the wheels.

""While I'm sitting here making an arrow let me tell you the story of my Uncle Noah.......Thats ok! my Aunt told me about him already.""



London bridges falling down...falling down

Common source...kids sing it today! and have no idea why or what it means.

Ring around the rosie.......I wonder if it will go on four 5000 years.

Cultures with no contact.....I doubt it. maybe three thousand years ago.....when the got the wheel and one cave man said to the other........"Here! Pull my finger"


Late for work!

the wheel is wayy older than 3000 years bud. The Sumerians go back as far as almost 5000 years and they are our first known writers.

The chinese had no contact with the middle east until long after AD and the Mayans most certainly did not have contact with the middle east until long after as well.

Not sure why you're avoiding Trish's offer, unless you fear gawds punsihment or you fear your beleifs are on such shakey ground that you may lose them with an open mind.

Its not wise to post an anti bigotry thread and then become one...

['A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind.']



BTW I was agreeing with you on there being some validity in texts that stand the test of time.

No that is unsound thinking , where did the water come from ??

There is only so much water on the planet , and the laws of physics state that it can not occupy the two spaces at once , so if for some reason it was to deify the laws of physics and rise up above the mountains it would leave a huge space below that would have to be occupied by the air it displaced which would be the heavier more breathable air





What you mean is if I read it and interpret it the way you do


That could be aplied to you



I have heard that before