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lets start being honest was god just invented to keep women children workers & slaves in their place

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lets start being honest was god just invented to keep women children workers & slaves in their place

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Conrad73
Lonesome Town Zurich , Zrich Switzerland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 12:15 PM CST
onegoodguy1959 wrote:
God, by definition, was not invented. Man is not capable of inventing, or creating, God. Now, people have invented a lot of stories about God, but those stories do not change the nature of God.
Some of will ask for evidence that God exists. I don't have any. But I also do not have any evidence that gravity exists. Gravity is simply a scientific theory which may explain a series of observed physical phenomena. But it makes sense to me so I believe it.
I believe in God because his existence explains a series of observed spiritual phenomena in my life.
Believe what you want.
Drop an Anvil on your Foot,and the Question about Gravity will speedily resolve itself.grin wave cool
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Conrad73
Lonesome Town Zurich , Zrich Switzerland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 12:28 PM CST
trish123 wrote:
There was a really good series on the BBC by Johnathan Miller where the issues of religion and social control were discussed - they are available on utube and I will post some later on. The following is a review of one of the hour long episodes;

Jonathan Miller points out that by the end of the 18th century, while skepticism of god and religion was gaining ground among the intellectuals and the elites, and was probably secretly quite widespread, the spread of atheism to the working classes was opposed (even by these enlightened people) because the elites feared that it would destroy the basis of their power. It was fine to discuss atheistic ideas around their dinner tables as long as the servants were not present. As James Mills said to his son, the philosopher John Stuart Mill, "There is no god but it's a family secret."

Religion has also consistently been used as a tool of oppression, from the colonization by Europe of Asia and Africa and South America, to its use during slavery. It was consistently used to divert the energies of the enslaved people away from organizing to fight for their rights and freedom and directed to accepting their lot as god's will and hoping for rewards in heaven. The idea that being rich and powerful is a sign of god's favor is a valuable tool to maintain that status quo.

A belief in the divine right of kings and nobility has always served as a powerful means of social control and a deterrent to democratic ideals, and this had been recognized for a long time. Aristotle (384-322 BCE) said, "A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of an evil treatment from a ruler they consider god fearing and pious. On the other hand they less easily move against him believing that he has the gods on his side." As Voltaire said, "As you know, the Inquisition is an admirable and wholly Christian invention to make the pope and the monks more powerful and turn a whole kingdom into hypocrites." Napoleon Bonaparte acknowledged the value of religion as a means of social control when he said "Religion is excellent stuff for keeping the common people quiet", echoing Seneca (circa 4 BCE-65 CE) who said: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."

The cynical view that advocates that religion should be fostered by political leaders even if they do not themselves believe in it, is an attitude still maintained by some Straussian neoconservatives today.

As long as atheism stayed within the rarefied world of the elites and intellectuals, it did not pose a danger to social order. It is only when atheist views threaten to spread to the general public that it is viewed with concern. What we see currently in America may be a replaying of this historical pattern. The recent success of books like The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris, and God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens and the resulting public discussions of atheism that they have provoked have caused a similar disquiet.
.....and when the Family-Secret started leaking out,they substituted "God" with "The State" and the Control Element remained!!wave
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Conrad73
Lonesome Town Zurich , Zrich Switzerland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 12:38 PM CST
trish123 wrote:
From the days of the very earlies vestiges of Christianity, before the Bible was even gathered together there have been disagreements on the stories - I really dont want to offend but there are many contradicions and in a school of thought which claims innerancy as it bedrock Im afraid the superstition wears thin in the face of widespread education - was it Calvin who quoted that reason is the enemy of faith/ - a superb quote in my experience.
Of course,Reason was a 'Thorn in the Side' for Calvin.He knew very well what a Reasoning Mind is capable of.
He also knew that a Reasoning Mind couldn't be controlled by his Dogma.wave
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Conrad73
Lonesome Town Zurich , Zrich Switzerland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 12:45 PM CST
RillyNiceGuy wrote:
Unsound thinking: If tha Noah's Ark rose above the mountain tops how did them folks breath caause there ain't no air up thar.

Sound thinking: As the water rose the air rose with it.....there by they were still at sea level.God exist! If you wll read the Bible and unstand correctly you will see much to show you he does exist and even tells you things that are coming. Now is the time to watch the furture unfold as was told long ago.....plainly to those that understand. if you never seek you are foolish to deny that which you will not seek to see if it is so. Just a foolish person trying to appear smart while being safe in a crowd of like people.I'm done!
The Story of Naoh's Ark has bigger problems to deal with than a little bit of Air!
It's more like,how he got two of every Animals in this world into that Space.

WIKI

Capacity and logistics

According to Ark dimensions commonly accepted by Biblical literalists, the Ark would have had a gross volume of about 1.5 million cubic feet (40,000 m³), a displacement a little less than half that of the Titanic at about 22,000 tons, and total floor space of around 100,000 square feet (9,300 m²). The question of whether it could have carried two (or more) specimens of the various species (including those now extinct), plus food and fresh water, is a matter of much debate, even bitter dispute, between Biblical literalists and their opponents.
__________________________

You Figureconversing wave
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Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:28 PM CST
Too many questions for me to answer and prove! Think people!

The answers are there! plain and simple!

Too many off the wall ideas! Think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:33 PM CST
chicken
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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:36 PM CST
Conrad73 wrote:
The Story of Naoh's Ark has bigger problems to deal with than a little bit of Air!
It's more like,how he got two of every Animals in this world into that Space.

WIKI

Capacity and logistics

According to Ark dimensions commonly accepted by Biblical literalists, the Ark would have had a gross volume of about 1.5 million cubic feet (40,000 m³), a displacement a little less than half that of the Titanic at about 22,000 tons, and total floor space of around 100,000 square feet (9,300 m²). The question of whether it could have carried two (or more) specimens of the various species (including those now extinct), plus food and fresh water, is a matter of much debate, even bitter dispute, between Biblical literalists and their opponents.
__________________________

You Figure


and all that poo .... where do you put 4 ton ark flusher laugh or did they have some unnaccounted for stableboys confused
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Conrad73
Lonesome Town Zurich , Zrich Switzerland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:39 PM CST
RillyNiceGuy wrote:
Too many questions for me to answer and prove! Think people!

The answers are there! plain and simple!

Too many off the wall ideas! Think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not asking you to 'Prove' anything.
Just asking you to THINK!conversing wave
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bodleing
Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:45 PM CST
Anyway, who stopped the lions eating
lets say the antelope.
I could just imagine the look on their
faces.

"Right, what have we got here, two lions?
Ok put them in there with the Thomson
Gazelles.wow!


laugh
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trish123
Lancashire, Lancashire, England UK
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:46 PM CST
RillyNiceGuy wrote:
Too many questions for me to answer and prove! Think people!

The answers are there! plain and simple!

Too many off the wall ideas! Think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But what makes you think that we dont already think - this is what I cant understand Mr Rilly Nice Guy - Personally, I have a lot of time for people who think outside the box.......
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trish123
Lancashire, Lancashire, England UK
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:48 PM CST
bodleing wrote:
Anyway, who stopped the lions eating
lets say the antelope.
I could just imagine the look on their
faces.

"Right, what have we got here, two lions?
Ok put them in there with the Thomson
Gazelles.


haha, and how did they ever live so close to skunks uh oh!

Hi Gra wave
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crotalus_p
Rush , Dublin Ireland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:49 PM CST
RillyNiceGuy wrote:

Too many questions for me to answer and prove!


At which point did the number of questions dictate weather or not you can prove them dunno?? In any case there are very few questions there either show proof or admit defeat scold

RillyNiceGuy wrote:

The answers are there! plain and simple!


Eerrrrmmmm no , no they are not , (if I am wrong to feel free to prove it dunno )
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trish123
Lancashire, Lancashire, England UK
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:49 PM CST
Conrad73 wrote:
Of course,Reason was a 'Thorn in the Side' for Calvin.He knew very well what a Reasoning Mind is capable of.
He also knew that a Reasoning Mind couldn't be controlled by his Dogma.


Thanks Conrad - I though it was Calvin wave
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crotalus_p
Rush , Dublin Ireland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:54 PM CST
BnaturAl wrote:
and all that poo .... where do you put 4 ton ark flusher or did they have some unnaccounted for stableboys



Well seeing as space was at a premium they would have had very little food , little in means little to nothing out , 30-40 days with out food can be done by most large mammals , most reptiles ,smaller mammals that hibernate the real logistical problem would be water professor
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crotalus_p
Rush , Dublin Ireland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:54 PM CST
Hi Trishwave bouquet of flowers
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BnaturAl
Sarnia, Ontario Canada
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:55 PM CST
crotalus_p wrote:
No that is unsound thinking , where did the water come from ??

There is only so much water on the planet , and the laws of physics state that it can not occupy the two spaces at once , so if for some reason it was to deify the laws of physics and rise up above the mountains it would leave a huge space below that would have to be occupied by the air it displaced which would be the heavier more breathable air


actually there is the possibility for excessive water, since it also takes gaseous and solid forms. The poles melting for instance, or storm clouds carrying it from one place to another in gaseous state and dumping it somewhere else. Far fetched, maybe? Possible? ... life would seem impossible but here we are doing it.

We have found evidence of civilizations under water, (though this process seems to take longer than a lifetime) As well there are 3 known civilizational eras in Rome, found during excavations there and a number as well in the middle east.

What wiped them out is in question. I have a feeling the ark story is allegorical, if anything at all. What would a young civilization do to preserve its history but write books or etch on tablets and because its populace was largely unread, would they use allegories or aesops type stories to preserve it rather than pen something that would seem, beyond an uneducated man's ability to grasp? A kind of braille for the ignorant?
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trish123
Lancashire, Lancashire, England UK
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:55 PM CST
crotalus_p wrote:
Hi Trish


Hiya Hun wave hug
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bodleing
Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 1:56 PM CST
trish123 wrote:
haha, and how did they ever live so close to skunks

Hi Gra


Not to mention the komodo dragons!!!

Those things have got real nasteee breathbarfing

Hi Trishwave
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crotalus_p
Rush , Dublin Ireland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 2:01 PM CST
BnaturAl wrote:
actually there is the possibility for excessive water, since it also takes gaseous and solid forms. The poles melting for instance, or storm clouds carrying it from one place to another in gaseous state and dumping it somewhere else. Far fetched, maybe? Possible? ... life would seem impossible but here we are doing it.


even at that I doubt that there would be enough water raise the sea level high enough to cover the mountains (Im sure some one has atempted to do the math first one to find it gets a gold stargrin )
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Conrad73
Lonesome Town Zurich , Zrich Switzerland
Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 2:01 PM CST
BnaturAl wrote:
and all that poo .... where do you put 4 ton ark flusher or did they have some unnaccounted for stableboys
Yep,Imagine the amount of Animal Crap!rolling on the floor laughing grin cool
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