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*They* for the most part: are. I worked with them and I happen to know that most are just like that.

But: the 10% rule applies. That being: 10% of any group is a bunch of shit bags...10% of cops, lawyers, doctors, whatever you can name...there is bad in everything, but the majority is good...Except in government: there, only 10% are good...the other 90% are scum!

Less government: a LOT less....Government, in and of itself, is a necessary evil....small, decentralized, relatively less powerful government being less evil then a large, centralized, overly powerful bureaucracy, such as the one we have now...

But then, the U.S. is going down the same road as every other democracy that has ever existed...every one has degenerated into a dictatorship at some point or the other...every single one.

You probably don't know what I was going to say.....

Perot was a hobby politician.

I would love to know who "fits the bill"?

go for it...be positive....you can do it!!!

OK then I didn't say what she meant, just posted what she actually said. I've personally been feeling very frustrated with this current administration and the direction it has taken our country. There is a whole laundry list of lies, tax breaks for the rich and large cooperations (those are the ones that should be reversed) running a credit card debt with China to stage a war that's called a conflict and buy oil from the middle east.

If you don't see that our economy is shaky, the recession is here now, our housing marked is tanking. Our government has grabbed more power, gotten bigger in the last 8 years and less caring about it's citizens.

I'm frustrated and disappointed with our government, never with our country and millions more like me are too. I want a change, I want peace, I want no more lobbies, no more no bid contracts and big government. I want to get out of debt and I want China to get their hands off of our economy. Why do you think so much is made in China, we OWE them big time.

From what I've seen, McPain would be much more of the same that we've already experienced with McBush. What do you know of this Devil? I can see clearly that he is currently being supported by lobby's, the rich and big cooperations. He's a sell out and plays the game for the powerful not the people. He seemed to be an Idealist in many ways earlier on but got smacked down when he ran for President, smacked down by Bush and the Rep party. Now he just toes the line like a good little puppet.

I wish you would vote Hondo, if not for anyone running at least a write in vote. You've got a lot to say, you have an opinion. I don't care if you agree with me or not I just don't like it when you collaborate in your invisibility, big government want all of us to be like that. Silence is compliance.

I guess I was mainly pointing out how the Issue would be handled.
I believe there was another Standoff in Texas,after Waco,which almost turned out the same say.That one might have been about the Tax Issue.
Can't find it though.
I might be thinking about the Montana Standoff in 1995.


Btw,the FBI could have arrested David Koresh a Half Dozen Times OUTSIDE his Compound and in Town,but didn't!

A vote is matter of conscience, Sky. Just like they have the right in Congress to abstain....neither support or disapprove.....we as voters have the same right.

You know I have been doing some number crunching on all the "new voters" tha have been brought into the Democratic side...by Obama and Hillary campaigns. I think I am see a shadow game here.

Follow this.....
Hillary got 18 votes in the primaries
Obama got 18.+
Rishardson got a 1m
Edwards 4 m
That totals up to 41 m

in the 2004 election.....the dems had 52 million vote for Gore.....

So? Unless about 10 million were already deciding to abstain.......were are all the new voters.

I think what tehy are doing is taking all new registeration as counting them as new voters. That is not so.....many are registerging because of relcoations.....we are a very fluid society.....the claim for all these new Dem voters....might be a only shadows

I found something on Ruby Ridge Conrad, several somethings actually.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/rubyridge.htm

"Senior FBI executives received cash bonuses and promotions while under investigation for suspected misconduct during an internal bureau review of the August 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, that claimed three lives...."


http://www.mcsm.org/waco17.html

"An FBI sharpshooter who killed the wife of white separatist Randy Weaver during a 1992 siege in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, manned a sniper post outside the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, where Texas Rangers found spent rifle casings...."

I wasn't telling Hondo what to do or what to think Tom, I was telling him my feelings and thoughts. Do you think I wasn't respectful enough? I hope Hondo isn't getting that message from me, I totally respect his choice.


As to where all the new voters are Tom, they only count if they vote right? All the rallies in the world will be fun to watch and comment on but the real deal is the votes cast., not just thought about.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-06-
voterregistrations_N.htm

States see leap in voter registration

Nominating a Democratic presidential candidate has become a marathon, but primary voters are going the distance: Voter registration is surging in six of the eight states with upcoming Democratic primaries — a sign that turnout could continue to break records.

The hard-fought Democratic nomination contest between Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is making every primary critical. As a result, the late-voting states of Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky and Oregon have seen a boost in voter registration, state officials say.

RELATED: Dems press for youth vote in Penn.

"We're definitely seeing a big increase," says Scott Moore, spokesman for the secretary of State's office in Oregon, where more than 28,000 people registered to vote in January and February.

Moore says he expects 25,000 more voters to sign up this month, before the April 29 deadline, "because there are a lot of campaigns that are just now kicking off registration drives." If so, Oregon would top 2 million registered voters....

In North Carolina, which votes May 6, 165,449 new voters have registered since Jan. 1, nearly a 3% jump in total registration. Three-quarters of the new voters are Democratic or independent and therefore eligible to vote in the Clinton-Obama contest.

"We have seen it jump just in the last couple of weeks," says Les Fugate of the Kentucky elections division, which added about 21,000 new voters in January and February.

Already-registered voters are also switching their party affiliation to participate in upcoming Democratic primaries.

In North Carolina, 31,250 people switched their party registration since the beginning of the year and 80% became Democrat or independent. The state allows independents to vote in party primaries. In Oregon, 12,548 people switched their affiliation last month, and 77% of them became Democrats.

In Pennsylvania, nearly 106,000 voters switched to Democratic registration between March 4, when Clinton won the Ohio and Texas primaries, and the state's March 24 registration deadline. In that time, nearly 66,000 new Democrats were registered.

The total boost of nearly 172,000 Democratic voters in just 20 days in Pennsylvania far exceeds the nearly 19,000 increase in the party's registration from November 1999 to April 2000 — the last presidential primary without an incumbent seeking re-election...."

Apparently there has been a drop in the Rep registrations, but you may think this is a lie Tom. It certainly isn't using your numbers, as for me I crunch granola not numbers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/us/politics/05flip.html?_r=1&oref
=slogin

G.O.P. Drops in Voting Rolls in Many States

"Well before Senators Barack Obama and John McCain rose to the top of their parties, a partisan shift was under way at the local and state level. For more than three years starting in 2005, there has been a reduction in the number of voters who register with the Republican Party and a rise among voters who affiliate with Democrats and, almost as often, with no party at all.

While the implications of the changing landscape for Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain are far from clear, voting experts say the registration numbers may signal the beginning of a move away from Republicans that could affect local, state and national politics over several election cycles. Already, there has been a sharp reversal for Republicans in many statehouses and governors’ mansions.

In several states, including the traditional battlegrounds of Nevada and Iowa, Democrats have surprised their own party officials with significant gains in registration. In both of those states, there are now more registered Democrats than Republicans, a flip from 2004. No states have switched to the Republicans over the same period, according to data from 26 of the 29 states in which voters register by party. (Three of the states did not have complete data.)

In six states, including Iowa, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania, the Democratic piece of the registration pie grew more than three percentage points, while the Republican share declined. In only three states — Kentucky, Louisiana and Oklahoma — did Republican registration rise while Democratic registration fell, but the Republican increase was less than a percentage point in Kentucky and Oklahoma. Louisiana was the only state to register a gain of more than one percentage point for Republicans as Democratic numbers declined.

Over the same period, the share of the electorate that registers as independent has grown at a faster rate than Republicans or Democrats in 12 states. The rise has been so significant that in states like Arizona, Colorado and North Carolina, nonpartisan voters essentially constitute a third party.

Swings in party registration are not uncommon from one year to the next, or even over two years. Registration, moreover, often has no impact on how people actually vote, and people sometimes switch registration to vote in a primary, then flip again come Election Day.

But for a shift away from one party to sustain itself — the current registration trend is now in its fourth year — is remarkable, researchers who study voting patterns say. And though comparable data are not available for the 21 states where voters do not register by party, there is evidence that an increasing number of voters in those states are also moving away from the Republican Party based on the results of recent state and Congressional elections, the researchers said...."

My county here in Florida is the 6th fastest growing county in the country. There are 2200 counties in the country. The county registered
1400 new Dem and 401 new rep.....only 1801 new voters this last year.

What am saying is that......the Dem have been saying we have all these new registered voters......but thier primary totals compared to thier 2004 Presdiential total is not saying that.

With a primary that was between Hillary and Obama.....they still fell
some 10 million short of thier Turn out for GWB/Gore of 2004.

Also the voter pool for the entire country today is larger than it was
2004.....guessing here.....by 15m.

So? Add it all up......and why did they not surpass their 2004 Presidential turn out in the 2008 Primaries? They should have hit 50+ million.

I know what local reports are saying, Sky. A news paper here in my county could say the samething.....1400 new Democractic voter in the primary year for the Dem. What I saying....is if 1000 of those are relocates and were already Democratic someplace else......then they
are not new Dems. Most place don't strike you form the poll registries till you been gone over a year. But if that happened here, you really only had 400 new Dem voters.

That would explain why they fell short of the 2004 turnout. A new voter....is likely to turnout for the primary and the general.
But the numbers are not adding up. With the amount of 'new voters' being registered the Dem should have equaled or surpassed thier 2004 Presidential turnout in the primaries. So I see a snow job.

From Obama's position...it can make sense.....Obama is developing this concept Dem 'synergy'....getting out the young and disinfranchised voter...but if most of the 'new Dem Voters' are in reality 'old Dem that
relocated and re-registered', and they adding them into their data base....you can get numbers that are inflated badly. But if you are trying to build 'synergy' and show 'numbers', wouldn't you go with inflated numbers?

All depends on how honest his statistics team is, Sky. I don't know if it happened or not. I am just to explain why they fell short of the 2004
Presidential turnout with all these new voters that they are saying they have and when the voter pool of the country grew as well.

hehe...I know he was: and you are *not* the first one to point that out...and I knew that going in....

As for your other question: NOBODY fits the bill....not to me!

Thats why I haven't voted since....

Snipped for brevity...

Skybow...I feel your pain: I do! But we have to look at things realistically....not with some pie-in-the-sky, Utopian, Barak is gonna make everything better because he is for CHANGE!! attitude.....

Lots of folks have felt let down by this administration....

Lots of folks feel let down by the Clinton administration...

Lots of folks feel let down by the Bush Sr administration....

ad nauseum....

Lots of folks feel let down by the Lincoln administration....

Big Government has *always* been about lies, tax breaks for their rich cronies and big corporations...always have...always will....Barak will have *his* debts to pay too, you know....

The economy is shaky? I'm doing better then I was during Klinton! So are my friends and family! And no, we are not "rich"!

The housing market? Who do you blame? idiots whose only blessing in life is being able to breath....or the senate and congress (democratically controlled BTW) who insisted the lending industry be "more inclusive"...creating, from thin air, the "sub prime" market!! Basically giving loans to anyone who shows up! Regardless of their probable ability to pay those big loans back! American dream my a**!! American nightmare is more like it...and because the lenders were forced to listen to congress: we all suffer! Well...not me but...

McPain? He wasn't smacked down by the republicans! He was smacked down by Kerry and his cronies!

Now Kerry, Barak and all *their* cronies in common say McPain wouldn't be a good president? Well then why, why, why did Kerry ask him to be VP back in '04? Presumably with the mindset that if something happens to Kerry, McPain would be good enough to take over? Politics.....hate it....

Me, vote? What for? Like I said: 2 sides of the same coin: already chosen! Doesn't matter, really, which one wins...and many will say to this: Hondo, If it doesn't matter which one wins: why not vote for Barak?

Frankly, because he is an *idealist*.....and so is McPain.....but McPain has been around long enough to learn that being an *idealist* can only get you so far....

Plus, I heard Barak is a muslim......time to go cling to my guns....

You are correct bro: we *are* a fluid, voting society. NO ONE, NOBODY is going to be able to accurately predict anything this time around!!! This is gonna be a serious crap shoot! And we will only know the real answer on election night...

Ever read "Every knee shall bow", about the Ruby Ridge thing? Great book! Check it out on amazon....I thought the writer did a very comprehensive job.

Yep! The same guy from the Ridge, as well as some Delta Force snipers.....very, very good shooters....

Such a day.............Such an eve it will be......

Barack Obama is nominated by acclamation!

Congradulation America!

The most of the rest of the world is smiling together with you!

Good times are coming!!!!!!!!!!

I may absolutely admit............

Hillary Clinton made a fabulous speach and by that she made republicans to with draw from their endless provocations about Huge problems amoung democrates becasue of her!

All respect from here to Hillary........she will be a strong part of Obama team as the responsible one for creating a much more fair healthcare affordable by the majority of all human beings living in the United States!

In a sad time where more than 40.000.000 americans living in poverty and in a time where a rich dude who made his money because of the wealth of a liquer maker he even does not know how to Respect in front of others, and because of liberals and because of huge companies which just want profet no matter what happens to the rest of America....... In a sad time where the wealth of America is wasted in a stupied and illegal and murdereus war far from the country and where real terrorists getting stronger day by day.......The forces of unity amoung democrates will be the main weaopn against countinuation of the Bushney,s on power!

GO OBAMA GO!!!!!!!!!

Listen to Bill Clinton.......He will be on in a minute from now!

So full of crap you are Indyfella

So are they wearing togas at the "coloseum" tomorrow night.... Nothing like that "Roman" look for an American election