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Shhh...we are Spirit. Stop confusing the one for the one.

Cool for me to be a bit of a voyeur and watch two gentlemen from somewhat differing points of view talk it out and just give a cheers at the end. Guess,that is what it is all about. Nice to see.

Dialogue. It's fun to watch.

I like what Dusty45 posted in the unifed consciousness thread.

Whatever is in the unmanifest must sooner or later manifest.

In the collective consciousness if there is division we lose much of our power to create the change we desire. In this instance, it is to a more peaceful existence that I am sure the majority of the human race would like to live in.

The amazing power for change then lies in a unified collective consciousness. Also pointed to in Dustys post.

So how do we deeply implant the principles of non violence in to the consciousness of each and every person that are, whether they know it or not, part of the collective consciousness? It is what most philosophies, religions and their doctrines and tenets have tried to teach since the beginning of time, as we know time to be.

I think Galactic bodhi pointed to part of the solution in this following quote



I also think Dusty45 in her thread hit on part of the solution too with this following quote



I will try to illustrate what I am pointing to.

The division that is occuring in the collective consciousness as an analogy, can be likened to a body that has cancer cells. The cancerous cells are normal cells that multiply at a rate much faster than the the healthy cells. Each cell in the body is interconnected and interdependent of each other. Each cell or group of cells have their own function and because they are interconnected and interdependent, how well each cell or group of cells function will determine the type of affect they will have on other cells. When the cells are funtioning in synchronicity and harmony a healthy body will result. If for whatever reason cancerous cells ears are closed, the sychronicity and harmony no longer exist and a diseased body will result. Cancer cells do no know they are not multiplying in synchronicity with the other cells because they cannot hear the communication that goes on with the cells and just keep doing what they do until the condition that causes their ears to be closed is healed.

A unified collective consciousness is like a body with cells that function in Sync. A divided consciousness is like a body with cancerous cells.

An individuals consciousness is like one cell, interconnected and interdependent on other individuals consciousness. Of which makes up the collective consciousness. How well they function will affect the collective consciousness. Whether it is unified or divided the cause lies in the heart of each and every individual.

With each new birth there is an individual consciousness that can be taught the way of peace. The power of change starts first with the heart of an individual. It is not so much about changing what has already manifested. It is more about changing that which is yet to manifest which lies in the heart of each and every one of us. Whether we advocated violence in the past or not it only takes a decision to make a peaceful choice. But it starts with the individual.

If more individuals chose peace in their heart and every new individual was taught peace, perhaps the collective conscious will become more unified and the harmony of living will be more peaceful one.

Beautiful!

Hon'nin-myo (Myoho) is The Lotus Flower, a plant that grows from the muck of a swamp and seeds and blooms simultaneously. Time is illusion. Transformation is instantaneous. Work on it in your own hearts. Conquer the darkness, the ignorance, and make a change for the better, for the future, of all of us. A true change and willingness for rational dialogue is the first step, my friends. Try and be kind to each other.

Namaste.

TET

Thanks... GB is easy to discuss things with

The essence of dialogue is being able to respect another person's view while linking that view to common or universal values that lead to understanding, rather than linking their view to divisions that lead to anger and ignorance. This is the strength of true dialogue as compared to rhetoric designed to make the other person feel as if he's considered inferior.


We're all in this together, nobody has more right to be right than anyone else. If I am wrong, denial doesn't help my case. Accepting the truth of my error and moving on, or agreeing to disagree is always so much more constructive than angry outbursts.


Thank you for your participation, Sparky. You made valid points, and I did my best to link those points to information which added value and was still within the theme of the thread.

Peace Brother,

TET

Excellent opening post T, excellent

Its good that it ups the anti for discussions here too - I often find the assumed objective of many relevant discussions are based on personal one upmanship (I guess I must be guilty too at times) rather than solutions to the issues at hand. I will endeavour from this point forward to keep the bigger picture in mind........ Thank You

not that I dont as evidenced by my posts earlier this year of my incredulity at the treatment of the Monks in Mayanmar and that, no less than my dismay at how the peoples of the Sudan are being treated.

We are all in this together and together we need to find solutions - how come it is so much easier for people to argue than it is to find common ground? Im sure that individually we all have friends from many walks of life, it would be lovely if we could accord the levels of understading which we do to language barriers etc, to understanding people barriers - I personally see a lot of reluctance to examine why we hold the beliefs we personally do - in myself as much as anybody else.........

Im a pretty insular person and a bit of a hermit really and I think this is because Im always aware of peoples agendas - I dont want to be anybodies drinking buddy let alone their f*ck buddy, I dont want to get involved in their church, social group or family - If I like somebody I just enjoy how they think and interract - If I make a friend of somebody you can bet it will be a long term thing and I will move mountains to help - we all say the same thing too Im sure - so lets do it, lets put our higher selves into action........

Hi GB,

Eventually got time to read your post all the way thru and absorb it. I would be of the same opinion as yourself. I could never have put it so eloquently or incisive as you have.

I find myself learning so much from listening and reading and your post is by far the best I have read on CS.

I wish more people in the world saw it the way you do.

Thank you

Hi Lynne Honey Love of my life

Have a read of that.

We have to stretch ourselves, Trish. If you've never read "The Road Less Travelled" By M. Scott Peck, I highly recommend it. Love is not a noun, its a verb. If we are love, then we prove it through our actions.

That's what I'm trying to promote. A Dialogue to produce that awareness. We have to understand that nothing changes for the better unless effort is made. We don't just get the things we need at the supermarket. There's a vast network of people, unseen, interconnected out there, and when something happens to someone else, its as if it happened to us. The economy is in the toilet, worldwide, because people don't think about how their actions effect everything around them. Think about it; it does. As trish said about insular thinking, we can no longer afford to think that way.

"Live simply, so that others may simply live." - Mahatma Gandhi.

Our Common Humanity
By Ishmael Beah

Ishmael Beah was 13 when he was forced to become a soldier in Sierra Leone's civil war, which had already claimed the lives of his immediate family. In A Long Way Gone: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier, he describes this experience and the two years he spent fighting in that war before entering a rehabilitation camp for former child soldiers and going to live in the United States with Laura Simms, who became his mother. His book has become an international bestseller. The article below is an edited excerpt from an address he gave on May 12, 2008, at the SGI-USA New York Culture Center, as part of SGI-USA's "Culture of Peace Distinguished Speaker Series."
I didn't write this book just to explain what had happened to me. This book came out of frustration. And it speaks to the idea of promoting respect for all human rights.
When Sierra Leone began appearing on the news, the way it was spoken about was as if it had always had a civil war. We became known to the international community because of the war--Sierra Leone equals civil war and amputation, madness and nothing more. People could not see the Sierra Leone that existed before the war: the place where I grew up, where I went to school, learned Shakespeare, where I listened to American hip-hop; a place with a very strong community--there was storytelling in the evening where you sat around and adults told stories to young people. All of these things disintegrated because of the war.
When this country was spoken about, that context wasn't there. And when people don't see that context, it brings about a sense of hopelessness--there's no presence of humanity within the telling of the story.
Because of the way stories are told about other places, there's an absolute need for us to expose ourselves to the world, to learn about other places and other people. When we do so, we see those people are as human as we are--they have the same human tendencies, desires, needs and wants. Then we begin to value their lives--even if they don't have electricity or tap water.
I think respect for human rights really comes down to the willingness of people to understand that, regardless of how people live their lives and the circumstances they're in, the sacrosanct nature of each human life is the same.
I don't think we have gotten to that point as human beings where we truly believe that all life is valuable. We put a different value on different lives. I think that is the biggest problem, because once we begin to understand that each person's life is absolutely valuable, regardless of what our differences are, that would compel us to try to defend that life, to try to take care of it when it's threatened.
So I wanted to put that human context in the story, but more importantly, I wanted to speak about the strength of the human spirit, particularly of the children who were dragged into this war; not only how they fall into this madness, but how they come out of it--the possibility that is there. Some of us have been able to see that strength because life has thrown us into difficult times, but all of us have that strength within us, and I want people to really believe that.
The Cost of War
What I learned after I came out of this war is that when you are in a violent situation, one that only creates fear and distrust, it doesn't even allow you the luxury to know yourself, to know your own capacity to do something else. What fear and intimidation does is prevent you from connecting with people, from seeing other people's humanity.
I wanted to show people, particularly young people, that violence, war, is not as romantic and fascinating as people think it is. There's a fascination with it because people are removed from the reality of it.

You see Hollywood films where somebody is going into battle and there is music in the background--rock 'n' roll! Somebody in a gunfight will pull out their phone and call their wife or girlfriend to tell them they love them. These are Hollywood realities of what war is like. The reality of war--there is no background music first of all! Second, you don't have the luxury to call your girlfriend. You don't have the luxury to even love yourself.
During war you dehumanize other people in order to take their lives. But when you dehumanize somebody, when you hate somebody severely even without war, what it does, in reverse, is that you hate yourself and you dehumanize yourself. And it takes a lot of undoing to undo that, regardless of what the reason is for that war. But people don't want to believe these things because then we would not have people joining armies to fight.
When I was in the war, apart from the coercion, one of the motivating things about it was that we would avenge the death of our families. I really believed it deeply. But when I was removed from the war and I began to make friends with kids who were in the different groups that fought the war, I found out they had been told the same rhetoric. They were told we were responsible for what had happened to them and that we didn't deserve to live. Everyone had the same rhetoric but a different enemy. So we went out with this hate, and we took other people's lives who had nothing to do with what had happened to us. And the people who survived those massacres had more reason to be part of this madness. We were creating a cycle of violence.
When I was removed from the war and learned this reality, it was so difficult for me to handle: to understand that we have actually perpetuated this thing, when we thought we were doing something to prevent it. I realized that revenge doesn't do anything for anyone at all. It's only through forgiveness that understanding comes about.

The Power of Forgiveness
Forgiveness is also a word that people throw around quite a lot. It's not easy--it's absolutely difficult. When you forgive somebody, it allows you to transform the situation, so that people can learn from it. But forgiveness has a practical side too. It's not just about saying, "I forgive you." It's also a process.
When I was a child in Sierra Leone, when someone wronged another in the community the punishment was you spent time with the person you have wronged helping them work on their farm. When you have to eat from the same plate, you have to rest together, you have to go to the river together--you repair the relationship that has been damaged.
Punitive measures do not really provide us the understanding of how to prevent the reoccurrence of something that has happened.
So for me, the willingness to see people's humanity, to learn to forgive, to learn about other people's lives and culture--when we can do these things I think it will be very difficult to make a case for war.

I am always quite amazed when I go to conferences where there are youth from all over the world--from Brazil, from Iraq, from Afghanistan--and they all sit in the room and they talk. Sometimes people say, "Well, what will that really do?" Perhaps nothing comes of it, but what is important is that people make friends with other people of the world.
Ten, 15 years from now, if any of those kids who were in that room becomes a leader in Afghanistan or Iraq or the United States, they're less likely to engage in war.
There is so much that is overwhelming when you turn on the television, when you read the news, people sometimes feel that there's nothing they can do: "What will my contribution do? The problem is so big." If everyone felt that way, then none of the problems would be fixed. If everyone had thought, "Oh, these kids that are dragged into this war--it's sad, but what can I do?" I wouldn't be standing in front of you. I am, because there are people who are willing to say, "Alright, we can do our part." Each one of us, our contribution is absolutely valuable and important. "We went out with this hate, and we took other people's lives who had nothing to do with what had happened to us. And the people who survived those massacres had more reason to be part of this madness." "Once we begin to understand that each person's life is absolutely valuable, regardless of what our differences are, that would compel us to try to defend that life, to try to take care of it when it's threatened."

Completely agree. And I would agree with everything you hav written.......just would not hav been able to put it in such a succinct way.

I have asked a couple of people to read it I was so impressed.

Thanks again GB

GB, if anyone would get away with posting such a mass of writing and still have people reading it and like it, it would be you.

The idea of "A civilised framework for disagreement" was also launched on trial when they had a "top-meeting" between the Catholic Church and the Muslim network earlier on this year. More such initiatives could lead to an open dialogue that avoids bad wordings to become hurtful to large groups of people.

What seems to be hard to reach peoples mindset is that we need to be able to be different, to disagree or even to not like each other, but still be able to let each other live ones lives as we find comforting.

I am too much a “Streber” in my DNA-profile to ever manage to lift me to a level of insight and peaceful consciousness as the advice goes, but I know what message I have learned to like and listen to; the one of peace. Not the flower power peace, but the one that works, where we find, concentrate and work out our differences with common sense and without methods of oppression.

All in all - just wanted to give your thread a friendly bump, keep the good work up.



Fill your mind with compassion

Thanks, Mike. And its good to see that you don't think of me as one of the flower power peaceniks, because I'm not. What I am is a firm believer that competition in the world has seen its day, and we need to learn, or rather, re-learn, the value of cooperation.

We've always been able to cooperate within our families, local communities, and nations out of practicality. I don't see why we cant start seeing the entire species as our extended family. We now have the tools to make that possible through dialogue. All we have to do is use them.

Namaste.

Dialogue?A Good Conversation
Interview with Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson is professor of communication and a member of the Morris J. Wosk Centre for Dialogue at Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, Canada. He was a visiting fellow at the University of Cambridge in 1997-1998 and 2004-2005.

SGI Quarterly: If dialogue is such a good thing, why isn't there more of it?
Robert Anderson: We are very good at saying that dialogue is a good thing--there's almost nobody who doesn't bow slightly in the direction of dialogue. But dialogue takes real effort. The prerequisite or, rather, ingredients of dialogue--the idea of extending your commitment enough to listen to somebody else, to listen very carefully and to not simply be waiting for a pause in which you can counteract what they have said--these are not things that people are willing to practice regularly.
While people use the term a lot, "we need some dialogue here...," what they often mean is "I need something that suits my purposes better--we need a more effective method of getting our way," and that's not what dialogue is about. So there's a lot of reference to it, but not much of it.

Also, when people come together around a complicated or troublesome subject, they tend to want immediate action--some decision must be taken, or we must have a policy, or let's make a new law--and that takes up all their energy. So the dialogue part that might better precede that and give clarity to the relationships that would work in the negotiation, to the formulas that might work in the policy--that clarity doesn't come because that element of dialogue isn't done. And this is because it's hard work, especially for people in authority, who are used to being heard. If you have authority and power, you are more used to exercising it than suspending it in order to listen.