Whose fault is it? Palestinian gang in Gaza (Hemas) or Isreal goverment?

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gozoman2 Xaghra, Gozo Malta
pretzelman: yes....but you DID say "the west"


Still the western civilization....

or is it?

confused

rolling on the floor laughing

can't imagine your living under Shariya law anyway.....



pretzelman Las Vegas, Nevada USA
Don't want to live under any religious law!!



Allen38 Isfahan Iran
No religions have problems in their real stand. The problems are with those who reign with religions for their own benefits and the naive people think they preach exactly based on the religeous principles in its truest way.
woody636 Elgin, Illinois USA
Allen38: No religions have problems in their real stand. The problems are with those who reign with religions for their own benefits and the naive people think they preach exactly based on the religeous principles in its truest way.


thumbs up Agree. Seems like a LOT of people manage to turn/twist religious beliefs to their own benefit.



pretzelman Las Vegas, Nevada USA
Allen38: No religions have problems in their real stand. The problems are with those who reign with religions for their own benefits and the naive people think they preach exactly based on the religeous principles in its truest way.




Spot on!!applause
jbibiza Ibiza, Islas Baleares Spain
Hugz_n_Kissez: There is no point in determining fault...the truth is it's both Israel...Palestine and Hamas's fault...but then I can also see where Palestine would have a gripe with almost 90% of their land-base being encroached upon illegally...and barely a land-base left to sustain themselves...this from 6% of the land-base granted to them by the British...whose land it wasn't to give away in the first place as it was and has always been settled by the Arab people... and the Arab people graciously taking them into Palestine as refugees...So Israel has the power to end this conflict by giving Palestine the land back that they require to exist....their right to a free state as the indigenous people's of the land...and compensation for the rest...and letting them exercise their right to self-determination...however...it is they who have refused to do so.... http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html


That was a great link HK, very interesting reading. Thanks for posting it.
Steevyv sisak, Central Croatia Croatia
Conrad73: Hamas begins unprovoked rocket attacks from Gaza and Israel responds thus making clear that Israel is the ugly ogre in the situation. Since there was no such place as the nation of Palestine prior to 1948, I am wondering why Egypt, Jordan, or Syria have not created a homeland for these folks who are ethnically theirs. Moreover, when a nation of Palestine was offered upon the creation of Israel, the Arabs rejected it in favor of pushing for the destruction of Israel instead. We see how that effort has played out over the last 60 years. We should of course turn our back on the only true and functioning democracy in the middle east, it’s the right thing to do.


What do you think with " Hamas begins unprovoked rocket attacks from Gaza". Palestinian people in Gaza lives in a ghetto, thanking to Israels. Some of them for 60 years, so much time had passed since they were driven into exile. I have personal experience with this. Some people also tried to drive me to exile from my home and you know what I've done? I started to shoot! And this is the only reason why I now write to you this from my own home which is in my, only one I have, Homeland. This and nothing else.
- what is your definition of "Homeland"? How many "homelands" man can have? Is "Homeland" something that can be created just like this. Today one tomorrow another.
- You are asking " why Egypt, Jordan or Syria have not created a "homeland" for these folks who are ethnically theirs" could be answered very shortly: Why should they? Palestinians already have their homeland. They are there for more than thousand years. This IS their homeland and why should they look for another? Because Israels had their state there some two thousand years ago and now they get the idea that they would like to have it again and that therefore they have right to do ethnic cleansing of territory as they are doing for decades, since 1948. as a part of their official State strategy supported by, today, some 200 nukes.
Very good reason. What do you think if we now start to cut out frontiers as they were two hundreds, five hundreds, thousand and two hundred ,two thousand years ago, or how it suits to anyone who wishes to have its own state, and accept this like standard in international affairs? Where would it lead us? How would you react if somebody came with the idea that you must go out from your home with your family. all together, because he wants to live in. That is exactly what happened and is still happening to Palestinians.
- With the same right can be asked: Why international community, UN perhaps,or Israels by themselvs haven't "organized a homeland" for Israels somewhere else, perhaps on Florida or in one of the Swiss cantons, or maybe better somewhere else on a globe. There is enough of empty territories in Africa, S.America, Antarctic...
- We wont turn back to "only true and functioning democracy in the middle east" but we have right to say that we don't agree with their methods, that we don't trust in democracy type: " Stuka und Panzer", that the idea of "Lebensrhaum" is the same no meter by whom is leaded, and that all this is unacceptable. And most of all: THEY MUST STOP WITH THIS ! If they wish to have our support for having their State there and their democracy too.
Otherwise, I wont support them because I don't wont to be collaborator in their war crimes, in murdering of Palestinian people and children. What they are doing daily.



Allen38 Isfahan Iran
I'm thinking of the middle age and before when the countries were under the cotrol of the church. Remeber the scientists couldn't show thier own beliefs or any truths. "the earth orbits around the sun"
""oh Galilo is a pagan!""
or remeber what happened to Galva-the young mathematician. Or father of kushi while mourning the priests were playing with his coffin!
Are we living at the same time?!
Conrad73 Lonesome Town Zurich, Zrich Switzerland
Steevyv: What do you think with " Hamas begins unprovoked rocket attacks from Gaza". Palestinian people in Gaza lives in a ghetto, thanking to Israels. Some of them for 60 years, so much time had passed since they were driven into exile. I have personal experience with this. Some people also tried to drive me to exile from my home and you know what I've done? I started to shoot! And this is the only reason why I now write to you this from my own home which is in my, only one I have, Homeland. This and nothing else.
- what is your definition of "Homeland"? How many "homelands" man can have? Is "Homeland" something that can be created just like this. Today one tomorrow another.
- You are asking " why Egypt, Jordan or Syria have not created a "homeland" for these folks who are ethnically theirs" could be answered very shortly: Why should they? Palestinians already have their homeland. They are there for more than thousand years. This IS their homeland and why should they look for another? Because Israels had their state there some two thousand years ago and now they get the idea that they would like to have it again and that therefore they have right to do ethnic cleansing of territory as they are doing for decades, since 1948. as a part of their official State strategy supported by, today, some 200 nukes.
Very good reason. What do you think if we now start to cut out frontiers as they were two hundreds, five hundreds, thousand and two hundred ,two thousand years ago, or how it suits to anyone who wishes to have its own state, and accept this like standard in international affairs? Where would it lead us? How would you react if somebody came with the idea that you must go out from your home with your family. all together, because he wants to live in. That is exactly what happened and is still happening to Palestinians.
- With the same right can be asked: Why international community, UN perhaps,or Israels by themselvs haven't "organized a homeland" for Israels somewhere else, perhaps on Florida or in one of the Swiss cantons, or maybe better somewhere else on a globe. There is enough of empty territories in Africa, S.America, Antarctic...
- We wont turn back to "only true and functioning democracy in the middle east" but we have right to say that we don't agree with their methods, that we don't trust in democracy type: " Stuka und Panzer", that the idea of "Lebensrhaum" is the same no meter by whom is leaded, and that all this is unacceptable. And most of all: THEY MUST STOP WITH THIS ! If they wish to have our support for having their State there and their democracy too.
Otherwise, I wont support them because I don't wont to be collaborator in their war crimes, in murdering of Palestinian people and children. What they are doing daily.
Look at the Timelines of Gaza and Westbank and see who had owned them until '67!



Allen38 Isfahan Iran
With globalization and the idea of the change in life fanaticism can make a great problem. This problem is rooted in peoples' beliefs relating to the old age! this will continue and maybe the TIME solve it!



JacobGrimm Blah blah, Ontario Canada
woody636: Agree. Seems like a LOT of people manage to turn/twist religious beliefs to their own benefit.


Seems like a LOT of LEADERS manage to turn/twist religious FOLLOWERS to their own benefit

just a minor correction in the reality of it thumbs up wine



Allen38 Isfahan Iran
Those goverments address religious quotes when their aim is getting benefits, they never go beyond!
Lillym Sliema, Majjistral Malta
Hugz_n_Kissez: There is no point in determining fault...the truth is it's both Israel...Palestine and Hamas's fault...but then I can also see where Palestine would have a gripe with almost 90% of their land-base being encroached upon illegally...and barely a land-base left to sustain themselves...this from 6% of the land-base granted to them by the British...whose land it wasn't to give away in the first place as it was and has always been settled by the Arab people... and the Arab people graciously taking them into Palestine as refugees...So Israel has the power to end this conflict by giving Palestine the land back that they require to exist....their right to a free state as the indigenous people's of the land...and compensation for the rest...and letting them exercise their right to self-determination...however...it is they who have refused to do so.... http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html


Brilliant post Hugz...cheers
jbibiza Ibiza, Islas Baleares Spain
Conrad73: Look at the Timelines of Gaza and Westbank and see who had owned them until '67!


Historically, the land of Palestine was populated by a people known as the Palestinians. Palestinians have always been religiously diverse, with the Muslim majority maintaining friendly relations with their Christian, Jewish, and Druze brethren.

At the turn of the 20th Century, a new Jewish nationalist ideology called Zionism was developing. Zionism called for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

During this time, increasing numbers of Jewish Europeans immigrated to Palestine, causing the Jewish population to grow from a tiny minority to 35% of the population.
Population of Historic Palestine

Year Non-Jewish Palestinians Jewish Population

1870 367,224(98%) 7,000(2%)

1912 525,000(93%) 40,000(6%)

1925 598,000(83%) 120,000(17%)

1946 1,237,000(67%) 608,000(33%)


In 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population. The indigenous Palestinians rejected the division of the land on which they had lived and farmed for centuries.

At the time of partition, the Jewish population owned less than 6% of Palestine.

In 1948, Israel declared its “independence” on 78% of Palestine, having stolen an additional 23% of Palestine since partition.
Refugees and Depopulated Villages

Between the time of partition and the declaration of Israel on 78% of historic Palestine in 1948, the newly formed Jewish state had depopulated (through massacres, expulsion orders, and fear tactics) over 400 villages and made refugees of at least 726,000 Palestinians (see U.N.).

As Moshe Dayan put it, “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either.”

In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Following the 1967 war, Israel created what it calls “Greater Jerusalem.” It did this by expanding the borders of East Jerusalem to include surrounding areas of the West Bank where the Palestinian population was minimal. It annexed this new “Jerusalem,” and declared it to be it’s capitol.

Since 1967, Israel has established numerous illegal settlements in this “Greater Jerusalem,” thereby ensuring a Jewish majority in the city. While the municipal government encourages the construction of new Jewish homes in the city, Palestinian families (many of whom have lived in Jerusalem for centuries) are rarely able to acquire the permits necessary to build new homes and are only allowed to live in certain areas of the city due to systematic discrimination against non-Jewish citizens.


Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights.



JacobGrimm Blah blah, Ontario Canada
jbibiza: Historically, the land of Palestine was populated by a people known as the Palestinians. Palestinians have always been religiously diverse, with the Muslim majority maintaining friendly relations with their Christian, Jewish, and Druze brethren.

At the turn of the 20th Century, a new Jewish nationalist ideology called Zionism was developing. Zionism called for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

During this time, increasing numbers of Jewish Europeans immigrated to Palestine, causing the Jewish population to grow from a tiny minority to 35% of the population.
Population of Historic Palestine

Year Non-Jewish Palestinians Jewish Population

1870 367,224(98%) 7,000(2%)

1912 525,000(93%) 40,000(6%)

1925 598,000(83%) 120,000(17%)

1946 1,237,000(67%) 608,000(33%)In 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population. The indigenous Palestinians rejected the division of the land on which they had lived and farmed for centuries.

At the time of partition, the Jewish population owned less than 6% of Palestine.

In 1948, Israel declared its “independence” on 78% of Palestine, having stolen an additional 23% of Palestine since partition.
Refugees and Depopulated Villages

Between the time of partition and the declaration of Israel on 78% of historic Palestine in 1948, the newly formed Jewish state had depopulated (through massacres, expulsion orders, and fear tactics) over 400 villages and made refugees of at least 726,000 Palestinians (see U.N.).

As Moshe Dayan put it, “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either.”

In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Following the 1967 war, Israel created what it calls “Greater Jerusalem.” It did this by expanding the borders of East Jerusalem to include surrounding areas of the West Bank where the Palestinian population was minimal. It annexed this new “Jerusalem,” and declared it to be it’s capitol.

Since 1967, Israel has established numerous illegal settlements in this “Greater Jerusalem,” thereby ensuring a Jewish majority in the city. While the municipal government encourages the construction of new Jewish homes in the city, Palestinian families (many of whom have lived in Jerusalem for centuries) are rarely able to acquire the permits necessary to build new homes and are only allowed to live in certain areas of the city due to systematic discrimination against non-Jewish citizens.Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights.

thumbs up

Everyone making sure they are in their place the big lift off in 2012. transport
Steevyv sisak, Central Croatia Croatia
Conrad73: Look at the Timelines of Gaza and Westbank and see who had owned them until '67!

I am enough old to remember 1967. So what? What do you wont to proof with this? That Israel has right to do ethnic cleansing. To kill whom they wont when ever they wont. That if in a house is one fighter o Hamas they have right to blow it together with all tenants. Or that they have this right even if he was there two hours ago and is already gone on another place. Or that "Homeland" is there where somebody drives you in exile. Or that Gaza is not a ghetto? Or that Palestinians can turn back to their homes from which they were expeled in 1948.and later.
Or, please, tell me where were the Israels frontiers when Allenby wrote frontiers with ruler.
What was was.
Question is : How to stop all this and how to find solution? With weapon, it is evidently, it is impossible.
We have two nations on one land. Two masters on one land. What to do? That is the question.
Conrad73 Lonesome Town Zurich, Zrich Switzerland
Steevyv: I am enough old to remember 1967. So what? What do you wont to proof with this? That Israel has right to do ethnic cleansing. To kill whom they wont when ever they wont. That if in a house is one fighter o Hamas they have right to blow it together with all tenants. Or that they have this right even if he was there two hours ago and is already gone on another place. Or that "Homeland" is there where somebody drives you in exile. Or that Gaza is not a ghetto? Or that Palestinians can turn back to their homes from which they were expeled in 1948.and later.
Or, please, tell me where were the Israels frontiers when Allenby wrote frontiers with ruler.
What was was.
Question is : How to stop all this and how to find solution? With weapon, it is evidently, it is impossible.
We have two nations on one land. Two masters on one land. What to do? That is the question.
I am even older to remember back a few years to the inception of Israel,when 25 mio Arabs said they were going to push the Jew into the Sea,Egypt occupying Gaza and Jordan annexing The Westbank.In effect stealing their Brethren's Homeland!wave
jbibiza Ibiza, Islas Baleares Spain
Conrad73: I am even older to remember back a few years to the inception of Israel,when 25 mio Arabs said they were going to push the Jew into the Sea,Egypt occupying Gaza and Jordan annexing The Westbank.In effect stealing their Brethren's Homeland!


...and what of the 700.000 displaced Palestinians with the creation of Israel?
Conrad73 Lonesome Town Zurich, Zrich Switzerland
jbibiza: ...and what of the 700.000 displaced Palestinians with the creation of Israel?
Out of Gaza and the Westbank!!
Steevyv sisak, Central Croatia Croatia
Conrad73: Out of Gaza and the Westbank!!

Konrad, Konrad. Nacizam is nacizam. And the ghetto is always ghetto. Doesn't meter if it is in Warsaw or Gaza. The same people ( are they for real people ) create them. Brothers in crime.




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