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I abhor violence. In all it's complexity.

And I am not going to even bother try to justify the historical ifs and buts of the area in question. Too complicated. Suffices to say this.

There are two neighbors. Myself, and next door. Now if the guy next door throws stones at my glass windows, I'll possibly swear the first time.

If he does again, I'll probably go there and have a shouting match with him

If he keeps on doing it, I'm going to knock him down and level him off.

And if he keeps making my life a hassle for me, then I'd probably go over and set his house on fire.

Do you get the gist of what I am saying?

Why did Hamas start shooting rockets at Israel when there was an internationally agreed truce in action?

You do not prove anything. The Israel State was founded by the Zionist. Jewish religion and Zinoism are not the same. Zionists are racist and use the religion for their goals. As exactly as the extremist from the Arab side.

Please do not be so messy and so poor in your argumentation.

You do not prove by saying "the inference is quite plain to see..."
Inference has to be shown not seen in your mind.

Ahh! one piece of your open mind:

"You either support the whole or denounce the whole in cases of such extremity. "

That is you and that is why you think I want Israel to be erradicated while you want the palestinians to be in peace.

hamas is nothing but a bunch of cowards hiding among civilians for cover. all they do is use the palestians as sheep for there own causes. they fired the rockets into isreal, what do they think the isrealis would do, nothing! they get what they deserve as far as i am concerned.

For such a supposed educated man you sure seem to fall upon name calling quite readily. Of course I responded in like as I did not want you to feel alone in the stick and rock calling. A simple children's game and suited to one with your development I suppose.
I likewise know many educated Israelis and their position. Their history and the suffrages they have endured from many sides. The issue here was Hamas and Israel in Gaza not the Catholic persecutions. Try to stay in line with the thread and keep your rancid and unjustified hatred of me to yourself. I did not open this discourse to you nor attempt to denounce your personal self. You are the one who did that without provocation. Attempting to denounce me for something you know nothing about.
And yes I will stand by the point that far too many innocents are dying on both sides of this mess. That is the true point here. If those who wish to kill each other would find some empty field and have at it I would gladly go and help them build the walls to keep it isolated and end the prejudice. Death is not worthy but for those who seek its 'glory.' You cannot turn them away so it would be best if they were left to their own devices so it would no spill out into other lives. One innocent is far too great a loss for such a fultile cause.

Thank You gozo, but in truth this is more about this man's irrational hatred of me for some perceived ill against a man he does not know. He is not trying to justify anything but his provokation and belittlement of me. A goal I assure carries no weight as his words have far too often been of little use to anyone here, beyond his expression of his own personal misery.
He sees me as some threat when in truth I am no threat to anyone here. I will defend myself to be certain and I will be wrong. But I will not stand by idly and allow such a piss poor example of common decency to slander me with suppositions and insinuations that are quite clear throughout his posts here and elsewhere to me.
Again if I was so opposed to Al for his attack on my family, parenting skills and my personal past then why have I not reported him for the exact same things. Because I do not value the opinion of a man like him and even if I did I would merely count it a loss of friendship (assuming I would have been such prior to this battery of personal degradation) and walk away.

OK I heard your point and I just brought up mine. I know well how to stay in focus. I mentioned the persecution of the Jews just to remark that I do not come from any tradition like that, and that saying something against the Israel state is not necessarily RACISM.
I just suppose if you have talked to educated people in Israel would have learnt what many people think of this war and all that. Again, you do not reproduce that but the version one side gives.
Hasta la vista baby. If you are so pitty with the suffering ones, see the other side too. If your problem is that you believe the general paranoia and think Israel represents civilization-peace and the Palestinians or Muslims just someone lurking your door to jump and cut your throat out of blind madness and hatred toward the Weterners then you can continue talking that way.

Come on man! do you think you are so important?
Come on. Stop that.

well , i ve have reading wat BarrenPneuma was writing , and i can see that you have double standards , very clear ones ,let us go back to 1948 , when the zionists or Jews or watever you wanna call them , came to Palestine and accupied the land, killed people , raped women and to took the lands and distroyed the houses anf the farms , killed the animals , dont you call this "stealing" ?

would you accept that someone would come to your palce now and do so ?

waiting for your reply

Again with the broad brushing...

I do not see this in any way. I do not support either side for the atrocities committed on each other. I am against the deaths of innocents for political or religious sides. I likewise do not see Muslims as mad butchers. I see the butchers hiding behind their human shields and am angered at their approach. If they wish to kill each other then the ones who believe this is the only way should face each other where there will be no fall out to harm the innocents. I prefer not to see them as Muslims or Jews rather as humans. The ones who paint themselves with monikers and stand firmly behind their flags of hate should be the only ones that die by each others hands. In this at least Israel has the upper hand as they do not parade about in the company of innocents so that when some of them die they can get international recognition for their plight.

No but by reading your responses you certainly do. And for that I am truly sorry. I never intended to be any part of your hatred or to occupy so much as a single particle of your mind.

This works both ways young lady. There have been far too many incidents of this sort on both sides. They are in the past and have no bearing on the future. Coexistence is the only way as neither side is going to just turn and walk away.
If this situation is not mended soon enough one of the big brothers is going to turn Palestine into a shopping mall and Israel into the parking lot if it spills out into their worlds any more than it already has. A terrible loss to our world as both socirties have great histories and peoples as well.
The Hatfields and the McCoys likewise had such feuds with great losses on both sides and for what? Some incident in the past. Forgiveness begins in the heart. There will be no end to this without acceptance of the right to live for both sides.

thats for your quote .

well , i read alot in history, and found out that its sirael who started the fight , they started the shooting, there was a truce , right ! wat kind of trucw while Gaza was suffering the accupation, all closed , no food / water / medication / petrol was allowed to inter the city , wat kind of truce is that ? many people died while giving birth, many people died bcz they didnt have enough medication, what kind of truce is that ?

and since Israel is assuming that they are chasing Hamas ( thats wat they assume ) , why do they raid on schools and mosques and civilians ?

please im waiting for your reply

First of all the U.S. will do little to stop the Israeli's. Why? Because they support Israel politcally, finacially, and militarily. Second, the U.S. knows that if they ever got into a conflict with Israel they would be reduced to ashes. Israel, probably has the most powerful military on the face of the planet. If they wanted they could bring the U.S. to their knees. They know it and the U.S. knows it. As for the continued attacks in Gaza, the Palestinian population can thank Hamas for these continued attacks. They are the one's putting their own people in harm's way. The Israeli government WILL NEVER allow anyone to jeapordize their way of life again, especially after the Holocaust.

Good then. You don´t then. I examined that case you were mentioning about Bnatural and gave my opinion.
Ok, not my cup of tea I admit.
I just thought that an open war with you will get me reported that is why I mentioned the case.
If you are a brave warrior not using low resources then good for you.

still sir , yo didnt answer me , why did the Israelies have to come from all over the world ot live in Palestine ? its not their land and this is where the problem comes from !

can i come now and take you house and your farm and rape you wife ( no offence ) ,, if yes please let me know , bcz ive been living 25 years an a refugee bcz of isreal ,

If your neighbour has a dog that constantly bites your children and you have it removed. Then they get another one of the same sort do you not retaliate against the neighbour at some point?
Hamas uses the Palestinians as shields to support their terrorism and sadly they hide amongst innocents. Eventually they will lose favour with the people they are using as defences and they will be kicked out to face their enemies in the open. Until that day there will be deaths from crossfire and collateral damages to be certain. None of it is right but it is happening and will continue to happen as long as terrorists are allowed to hide amongst the Palestinian people.
If the Jewish State is truly as bad as you are trying to show then perhaps move the Hamas out so that the Jewish point can be shown for what it is. If they continue to attack and kill innocents they will be seen as the aggressors and the world will finally know the truth.

In history everything was much easier. Then you could kill jews
for free. Of cource it´upsets many that they suddenly hit back.
Israel has the right to fight back. Hamas is an outspoken enemy of all Jews in the world and has clearly stated that the extermination of Israel is its goal.

Bo S.

I do not agree with this but hammas is to be blamed for!

The problems of the middle east will certainly not be sorted out by screaming foul on all the historical fuck ups that did or did not occur.

With that kind of reasoning one may keep on going to when that land in particular was lived in by the tribes of Israel, or even more to the tribes that occupied that territory before then....

Wiping out the jews because they have no right to be there is never going to be a solution. We have to think NOW and find the solutions internationally for the situation we have today and for the future.

Don't take me wrong.... I believe that the Jewish nation is guilty of inflicting the same persecution on the Palestinians that they themselves suffered under the Nazi regime in Europe....and they must carry the historical responsibilties for that.

But I cannot accept the continuous reasoning as by yourself that Israel does not have a right to exist. It sound very much like inbred hatred that has been kept alive for political reason.

Hamas had no reason whatsoever to unilaterally stop the truce that, I repeat, had been achieved by international diplomatic
efforts, primarily those coming from the EU, and once again attack Israel with the use of rockets on the villages of the Negev.

I am not Jewish, nor do I have some undying love for the Israeli nation, but if somebody is making it clear they are out to get me at all costs, I would retaliate.

And if I have the tools to wipe out that somebody before he has the chance to hit me again I would do so too.

The Israelis lived in that land for far longer than 60 years. It was their homeland before the Romans pushed them out 2000 years ago. They merely returned home. There is no easy answer but if the terrorists were removed the world would have a better vantage and would likely be more supportive of all innocents displaced. Both nations deserve to live there and both have claims. A very difficult situation made more impossible by the genocidal terrorists on both sides it appears.
I of course take no offense to you post as it is exactly what you have been facing for far too many years. I have great sympathy for your situation but sadly no solutions as I am but one man and without power on that particular political field.