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Dusty45: But, We are in Spirit, now.
This world is 'made' by the ego which makes illusion.
What we want are 'things' that are not real.
When our bodies are done with and falls away - what
is left is our spirit still all around - as always. We just
have lost track of that - forgotten.

The ego seemed to have won out but at the expense of a
world of attack, confusion, degradation and with the gift
of fear. Yea

JacobGrimm: Ah yes, but these partnerships are not seen as forever or undertaken as a pact, they just seem to happen without precondition.(though conditions may be added later)

In that vane I could see it as basic human needs to connect, though I don't think continuance of the same connection is necessarily a need. Maybe destiny? in a weird way, a need.

JacobGrimm: Ae you saying that primal needs sated is what keeps you going with the same person? (provided the support factors you mention are there as well?) Interesting. You're saying evolution is heading towards making relationships that last? It seems quite the reverse in reality

JacobGrimm: I wish you had continued this thought ...

JacobGrimm: Well I agree there's nothing more hellish than the feeling of isolation, of actually feeliing alone when youre IN a relationship ... but perhaps evolving from this, requires endurance? IF true love is after all, selfless. Is it then the wrong person? Or is it the person who presented you with the limit of your evolution?

Dusty45: But that doesn't sound like love. It sounds like a 'fix'.

JacobGrimm: Good words, but here is my problem with spirituality. Not really a problem; but more like a reason for not induging it to the point of addiction to it.

If there a life beyond this in spirit, then indulging spirit now would be wasting the real tangible experience of this life?
If there is not life beyond this, then again, what is gained by ignoring the tangeable delectable nature of being alive?

And I am not even an A type personality for whom experiencing life is a must

BarrenPneuma: Marriage is a declaration, not of desperation, but of acceptance and public applaud. Proof to all who witness it that there will always remain hope, faith and Love.
There may or may not be a singular soulmate out there for each and every person, but there is in truth no requirement for such. Commitment and determination to press through whatever issues arise that must me met head on equally by both parties is absolutely required to maintain this illustrious position.

Monogamy is not the cause of failure in marriage, it is rather the pressing individual needs that is nurtured by our media that is crippling our ability to persevere against obstacles as more than a singular entity. A failure to maintain a connection to the spiritual and thus allowing us to lose our focus. We are all about the here and now and how that affects us as if there is nothing else. The loss of spiritual goals has made the concept of unity fade to a bitter dream for many and an impossibility for more.
Seeking the new world goals of personal success has driven us out of the conceptualization of forever, groups, or any sort of social togetherness. As long as we seek to better only ourselves at the cost of others, the insidious nature of our fortresses of solitude will keep us separate from anthing that could possibly weaken us in the eyes of the others who press ahead and leave their trails of carnage in the lives of others.
If our mate is less in some way should we not seek to bolster those points as they would do for us? Rather than abandon them to seek something that will make us 'better?'
Most marriages fail because of selfish impositions. When marriage is intended to be a selfless prospect that supports two individuals in a union of one.

Love is an act of God, in whatever form it manages to reside in those who understand it.

BarrenPneuma: There may or may not be a singular soulmate out there for each and every person, but there is in truth no requirement for such. Commitment and determination to press through whatever issues arise that must me met head on equally by both parties is absolutely required to maintain this illustrious position.

In response to:
Monogamy is not the cause of failure in marriage, it is rather the pressing individual needs that is nurtured by our media that is crippling our ability to persevere against obstacles as more than a singular entity. A failure to maintain a connection to the spiritual and thus allowing us to lose our focus. We are all about the here and now and how that affects us as if there is nothing else. The loss of spiritual goals has made the concept of unity fade to a bitter dream for many and an impossibility for more.

In response to:
If our mate is less in some way should we not seek to bolster those points as they would do for us? Rather than abandon them to seek something that will make us 'better?'

In response to:
Most marriages fail because of selfish impositions. When marriage is intended to be a selfless prospect that supports two individuals in a union of one.

Dusty45: Spirituality is not another addiction. It is our
very essence. It is who we really are.

We can have a high quality life developing our spiritual
nature along with improving others lives at the same time
without imposing our spiritual progression on any one else.

We live here with a new attitude, a shifting in our Mind.
We live by the Golden Rule. Believing and trusting
that others share Love too.

We create a world with a new outlook. Choosing Love and not
ego-fear. Everything changes.

laura225: soooooo... how is it 'but' then?? no difference -

happen without precondition.(though conditions may be added later) And this condition - marriage - is added only when 2 people do want to secure/finalize what they have. Acknowledge their mutual willingness for it to last. The pact itself even though it seems to be society imposed act (which it is), in reality is something that indulges (again) the primal needs of 2 people to claim their mate, etc.

In response to:
Reverse? Not at all!
It looks like it only because fear and/or financial dependency don't (anymore) keep women tied to relationships/marriages they hate or can barely tolerate. Wouldn't you agree many unbroken lasting relationships in a very recent past were just that?

In response to: It is?
Is it a full definition of love or there is more to it? Can't answer not knowing what you mean by it, Jake.
Love this name

dcj22: Doesn't even make sense.

In response to:
JacobGrimm: Good words, but here is my problem with spirituality. Not really a problem; but more like a reason for not induging it to the point of addiction to it.

If there a life beyond this in spirit, then indulging spirit now would be wasting the real tangible experience of this life?
If there is not life beyond this, then again, what is gained by ignoring the tangeable delectable nature of being alive?

And I am not even an A type personality for whom experiencing life is a must

JacobGrimm: To what extent? Just how much is too much reason to remain and bolster another? In the end, bettering ourselves comes from within, not from the expectations of others, no matter how hurt we are because of their abandoning us. Being dramatic about abandonment doesn't alter that fact. In fact it only creates victimisation, which is the very self oriented desire you denounce in the absolutes of altruism?

And if neither has 'impositions' of any sort, what then? Stale relationship or stalemate?

Dusty45: Spirituality is not another addiction. It is our
very essence. It is who we really are.

We can have a high quality life developing our spiritual
nature along with improving others lives at the same time
without imposing our spiritual progression on any one else.

We live here with a new attitude, a shifting in our Mind.
We live by the Golden Rule. Believing and trusting
that others share Love too.

We create a world with a new outlook. Choosing Love and not
ego-fear. Everything changes.

Dusty45: Spirituality is not another addiction. It is our
very essence. It is who we really are.

We can have a high quality life developing our spiritual
nature along with improving others lives at the same time
without imposing our spiritual progression on any one else.

We live here with a new attitude, a shifting in our Mind.
We live by the Golden Rule. Believing and trusting
that others share Love too.

We create a world with a new outlook. Choosing Love and not
ego-fear. Everything changes.

JacobGrimm: Well, I dont disagree Dusty, only with those for whom spirituality is the only course of life. Spirituality can be an addiction as anything else can.

All things have extremes. To deny this would be the keynote of addiction.

BarrenPneuma: The only extent for which dissolution seems the only option is the complete and total intentional abandonment of the initial goals that drew two people together. For example an illness that precludes the original life is not appropriate as there is a mutual expectation to support through thick and thin, and this would infer a selfish interest wherein one's personal life came before the others. Bringing another person into the monogamous relationship would definitely be a reason as there would be a breach of trust and respect. The risk of disease and the separation of two individuals for purely selfish reasons.

Abandonment is a symptom not the cause though so its reference is sort of off course. No one can make us feel anything it is in our own choice or failing that we reach conclusions one way or the other. Of course there will be some sort of awareness however deep or passing that will accompany such a loss. Perhaps equivalent to a death if one's personal attachment was uninterrupted or pure. These are still the after effects or fall-out and not the cause.

If neither has any impositions of any sort then it is up to both of them equally to make better what has become a routine which threatens their once thriving life. You only fail when you give up. Effort, any effort will make things change and with drive and determination there are no obstacles that cannot be overcome if both partners are seeking the same goal. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, is what will occur if one of the two does not maintain the same desires though. And that is selfish to pretend or refuse.

Galactic_bodhi: I think many of the problems caused by ego are the fear that others don't share this Love.

Yet another ridiculous twisting of "the Way". How can one be, and not the other?

The realization that we are spirit should enlighten us to the fact that others are as much spirit as we are. This should give us confidence that when we act, it ultimately serves Spirit no matter what the labels applied to the action attribute it as...

Thus, I may be cruel, only to be kind.

I may act the fool, who is twin to the wise.

I may whinny like a horse, although I will not be saddled.

And I may state wise things, even though my brain is addled.

Dusty45: BarrenPneuma, I agree with you completely. You have the
courage to make the equation of Love is God.
I didn't, because I thought I'd lose the audience for the
message I was trying to give. Many have problems with the
word God but will accept inclusive Spirituality.


Yes, I agree.
Love is God
and
God is Love.

JacobGrimm: I love paradox. Are you my teacher or my student? That choice is often preconcieved.

JacobGrimm: I'm not sure why Dana It makes perfect sense to me, though perhaps you think I meant not ever considering any spiritual aspects at all, and I most certainly didn't mean that. A balanced approach to all things was what I meant

I could have been clearer; but I was talking earlier about some who are addicted to spirituality so much that they miss life and so thought I had made my intent known.