Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share !

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linarl Boston, Massachusetts USA
Hugz_n_Kissez: America — An impartial mediator?

“America’s credibility as mediator had long been questioned by Palestinians, and with reason. ‘The Palestinians always complain that we know the details of every proposal from the Americans before they do,’ one Israeli government source told The Independent recently. ‘There’s good reason for that: we write them.’” Phil Reeves in “The Independent” (U.K.), 10/9/2000
Lockstep U.S. Media tell (some of) the facts but not the truth

“Rarely do American journalists explore the ample reasons to believe that the United States is part of the oft-decried cycle of violence. Nor, in the first half of October, was there much media analysis of the fact that the violence overwhelmingly struck at the Palestinian people.

“Within a period of days, several dozen Palestinians were killed by heavily armed men in uniform — often described by CNN and other news outlets as ‘Israeli security forces’. Under the circumstances, it’s a notably benign-sounding term for an army that shoots down protestors.

“As for the rock-throwing Palestinians, I have never seen or heard a single American news account describing them as ‘pro democracy demonstrators.’ Yet that would be an appropriate way to refer to people who — after more than three decades of living under occupation — are in the streets to demand self determination.

“While Israeli soldiers and police, with their vastly superior firepower, do most of the killing...American news stories highlighted the specious ultimatums issued by Prime Minister Ehud Barak as he demanded that Palestinians end the violence — while uniformed Israelis under his authority continue to kill them...

“Like quite a few other Jewish Americans, I’m apalled by what Israel is doing with U.S. Tax dollars. Meanwhile, as journalists go along to get along, they diminish the humanity of us all.” Norman Solomon, “Media Spin Remains In Sync With Israeli Occupation,” from FAIR’s Media Beat, October 14, 2000.
Intifada 2000 — An overview

“There is, in the final analysis, only one way to ‘stop the violence,’ and that is to end the occupation. The desire for liberation will, eventually, always bring an occupied people out into the streets, stones in hand, ready to face the might of powerful armies, preferring to risk death than live in bondage. This is not extreme nation.0 racism or religious fervor. It is the need to be free...

“ means a reality of unending violence. It means being surrounded by an abusive foreign army that enforces a social system indistinguishable from apartheid; confiscations of land that is then given to hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers in Jewish-only communities linked by roads that non-Jewish residents of the West Bank (whose land was confiscated for these roads) are prohibited from using; home demolitions; torture; cities cut off from each other, closed down on a regular basis. It means living in a massive prison...

“Since 1967, there has been only one workable solution to the conflict. The plan is articulated in U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, which sets up a two-part ‘land for peace’ solution. Part one holds that Israel must withdraw from the territories occupied in 1967. Part two calls for all states in the region to live in peace and security in those borders. The Israeli obligation, withdrawal from the occupied territories, is utterly unfulfilled.” Hussein Ibish, communications director of the American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee, in the Los Angeles Times, October 18, 2000.Is this all Hamas...or is this just what's being reported?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html


Thank you. Finally, someone who sees the facts as they are. Very well said indeed. It is not about Hamas or who supports Hamas. It goes way back and there is no justification to what is going on in Gaza of killing civilians especially children.
Antjo39 Pucara, Puno Peru
linarl: Thank you. Finally, someone who sees the facts as they are. Very well said indeed. It is not about Hamas or who supports Hamas. It goes way back and there is no justification to what is going on in Gaza of killing civilians especially children.

Every time one tries to go back and analyse historical facts in its dynamics, as a whole thing moving, there are people that retort "use new updated facts", as if one could understand history that way.

In fact what they want is that people only repeat the reports issued by the Israel defense Ministry or those from Condolezza Rice. Too brain-washed!!



rocketqueen geelong, Victoria Australia
Antjo39: Sorry, I would need othe rpeople to judge my few contributions )if anyone read it)
Unfortunately biased people only see anti-semitism and all those stupid names when you say something.
I will try harder to come up with some facts though I can see my brain is falling apart lately.
I agree with stop calling names.


i no it can be quite flabbergasting to deal with with some uninformed people......i came into this debate as a jewish woman wanting the truth, the facts, not the hyped up media intrepretation...what astounds me still is the misinfomation people are basing there judgements on (or in some cases no information, merely opinions)confused
Abram Goshen, Ohio USA
Antjo39: Sorry sir. Hope I do not get you mad.... in fact sometimes I have the feeling that I have some Jewish ancestors in my family tree. I know I am a pain in the arse too.


No insult my friend, you are only a pain to those not able to comprehend the simple truths you put forward. I enjoy reading your posts of wisdom, and you are in the right place to draw on its energy.
Antjo39 Pucara, Puno Peru
rocketqueen: i no it can be quite flabbergasting to deal with with some uninformed people......i came into this debate as a jewish woman wanting the truth, the facts, not the hyped up media intrepretation...what astounds me still is the misinfomation people are basing there judgements on (or in some cases no information, merely opinions)

It gets hard to work through all that mess. Misinformation is laid out just to support any argument, and then the fake fact is read by another one of the same creed and repeated.
LILLYLADY 10 Sneeze Town, Ohio USA
leftofffield: Quite Simple Colonialism never ended. This is a colonial war being fought by europeans with european arms and tacit (often overt, espoecially in this case) support against a defenseless indiginous people. The silence of our media is similarly diusturbing.

Zionism is nationalism it has nothing to do with religion.

This is really about under what conditions a ceasefire continues. Hamas substantive demand is that the border crossing with Egypt at Rafah be opened. The egyptian authorities relaint as much as the israelis on western aid for their existence are also complicit.

The Gaza Blockade has been a humanitarian catastrophe since the israeli withdrawal which was really a PR Exersize to give space for building morer illegal settlements in the west bank and esp. jerusalem.

The litmus test of the reaction of our governments is the status of those illegal settlements, the right of return and the illegal occupation of palestinian land rendering it impossible for palestinians to live. For example no man of milirtary age 16-60 I believe is allowed to leave bethlehem.

It amazesd me that a defenseless civilian city can be attacked with modern weapons. (Israel is the only country in the worlds with unlimited access to the entire american arms inventory)

Nuf Said.


Your right, Zionism is not Judiasm. However Hamas does chant frequently "Death to the Jews!" as they rally in the street. That is their motto. Perhaps you have not heard that being chanted sir.



cosmicwonderer stockholm, Stockholm Sweden
Antjo39: Every time one tries to go back and analyse historical facts in its dynamics, as a whole thing moving, there are people that retort "use new updated facts", as if one could understand history that way.

In fact what they want is that people only repeat the reports issued by the Israel defense Ministry or those from Condolezza Rice. Too brain-washed!!

AGREE with you Too many idiots trying to make a point here but they haven`t a clue whats really behind this mess my INCA FRIEND:
Antjo39 Pucara, Puno Peru
Abram: No insult my friend, you are only a pain to those not able to comprehend the simple truths you put forward. I enjoy reading your posts of wisdom, and you are in the right place to draw on its energy.

Thanks Sir if you really think so. I mean.... crying that wisdom comes from my weekly issue of Watchtower I always read in bed (though lately I am reading Wall Street Journal more... you know we gotta watch our money more....hehehe)

wave
Antjo39 Pucara, Puno Peru
cosmicwonderer: AGREE with you Too many idiots trying to make a point here but they haven`t a clue whats really behind this mess my INCA FRIEND:

Be blessed and enlightened by the Mountain Gods of my country.
And patience please.
To be wise you have to be an idiot first (me still struggling through)

Idiots still have a chancethen (or they don´t??) so PATIENCE!!!



linarl Boston, Massachusetts USA
LILLYLADY: Your right, Zionism is not Judiasm. However Hamas does chant frequently "Death to the Jews!" as they rally in the street. That is their motto. Perhaps you have not heard that being chanted sir.


Just because I speak the language and I read the history of the area I want to explain something. When they chant the motto (it is an ugly motto anyway) above in Gaza or any arab country it is not directed toward Jews or Judiasm as a religion. It is directed toward the Israelis who accepted to move into a land that it is not theirs and accepted the killing that has been going on since Israelis occupied Palestinians'lands in 1948 till this day. This struggle is not between religions and never has been. It is a struggle over a land as simple as it is. I think many Jews understand this fact and that is why you find many groups support the Palestinian in their case.



Sparky55 Kabul Afghanistan
Does it really make sense to call someone an idiot if they fail to agree with another's point of view. Each of us have our own experiances, bias', education, etc... It would seem to me that we do nothing to promote our points of view when we stoop to such levels.

There are some eceedingly intelligent people on these threads. Unfortunately, there are those here who seem to have an agenda of nothing more than causing discourse or who lack the skill to present an arguement or opinion without resorting to such tactics.

Sometimes this is a bit humorous but mostly it's sad. I'm done for awhile. Ya'll enjoy.



cosmicwonderer stockholm, Stockholm Sweden
Antjo39: Be blessed and enlightened by the Mountain Gods of my country.
And patience please.
To be wise you have to be an idiot first (me still struggling through)

Idiots still have a chancethen (or they don´t??) so PATIENCE!!!

Thankyou for your blessing. I take it with great seriousness because I respect your wisdom greatly. May the spirit guides be helpful in your journey.
Antjo39 Pucara, Puno Peru
Sparky55: Does it really make sense to call someone an idiot if they fail to agree with another's point of view. Each of us have our own experiances, bias', education, etc... It would seem to me that we do nothing to promote our points of view when we stoop to such levels.

There are some eceedingly intelligent people on these threads. Unfortunately, there are those here who seem to have an agenda of nothing more than causing discourse or who lack the skill to present an arguement or opinion without resorting to such tactics.

Sometimes this is a bit humorous but mostly it's sad. I'm done for awhile. Ya'll enjoy.

I always appreciate your in-depth analysis of the miserable condition of the thread.

No, it should not be an idiot... the thing is that when we get to the state of wisdom there would not be much to say. In fact only in an idiotic state we say too mcuh and use insults too.
Is it not a reflection that mankind is doomed?
Jekk ma taf xejn tiftahx halqek BUFFU
cosmicwonderer: LILEK qed nghid L-ghawdxi



confused confused confused dunno dunno dunno confused confused dunno dunno confused confused dunno dunno

gozoman2: wow......

Int Malti Man?X'buzz ostja.......min qieh qalbi sorry man mela.....hsibtek xi asshole tas soltu spacejat min Alla.......

Bis serjeta...........u min qalbi....


Erm, Gozo, did he actually speak in a true language?dunno confused dunno confused
RayfromUSA vienne, Rhone-Alpes France
LILLYLADY:
The world didn't go in to stop the Jewish Holocaust, Rwanda, Ethiopia nor the Protestant and Catholic fighting in Ireland and more hotspots that I can't think of right now.


Yes, but then again the world didn't arm one side of those conflicts and disarm the other side either.

I think the world has a responsability to repair the damage it has done.


quote=LILLYLADY]
Europe was being taken over by the Nazi regime country after country during the war years. It wasn't until the U.S.had Pearl Harbor bombed that we actually went to war.

We???

The Jews, or rather Zionism, declared war on Germany in 1933.
Years before the rise of the brownshirts.
And it was precisely due to the effect of the worldwide Jewish boycott of German goods that Hitler considered the Jews to be enemies of the state and began a policy of persecution.
(after all they had declared war on Germany long before the nazis began to persecute them)

quote=LILLYLADY]
We see great celebration in the streets on Al Jazeera network as people of other nations are dying.

Al Jazeera is, and always has been, the voice of the CIA in the middle east. It was set up specifically to serve as the "evil voice of Islam" to be quoted by the western press. It broadcasts out of Qatar, where the US has its biggest base in the world.

The government of Qatar was installed by the CIA and there would certainly not be any radio station there that in any way conflicted with US interests.

Yes they broadcast hateful things using fake "Imams".
And that serves US interests by poisoning public opinion against Islam.

Manipulating public opinion is the most important part of modern warfare.





JacobGrimm Blah blah, Ontario Canada
Reading this thread provides insight into the methods of war mongers and the simplistic ability to find soldiers/people who will throw rocks for them without knowing why they do.

Many will answer the beat of the drum, ... some will ask wtf is that gd noise.... and few will ignore the noise and ask the one beating the drum why he does this.

confused
LILLYLADY: As Tzipi Livni stated today on CNN:
Before the military operation, Hamas targets Israelis whenever it likes and Israel shows restraint. This is no longer going to be the equation. When Israel is targeted, Israel is going to retaliate.
Mahmoud al-Zahir states the the Quassam rockets are not the problem but the military seige by the Israelis. He also goes on to say that the Israelis have bombed mosques, schools, hospitals, children and their homes. (Of course he does not mention that the Hamas fighters are hiding and shooting at the Israelis from those sites nor does he even mention that caches of weapons or bomb making factories that are hidden in these places) And he also says that he will not stop the rocket firing in spite of at least 500 of his people dying and more dying everyday. Now that is really quite some leader who wants to get his people a homeland to live in peace.
Perhaps CNN should do a historical pictorial review for comparison of the Israeli devastation and loss of lives from the rockets and suicide bombers that have taken so many Israeli lives over time. And you wonder why the Israeli people are so hardened and yet are suppossed to show restraint?
Israel pulled out of Gaza 2 yrs ago to give the people a chance to form their own govt and set up a peaceful state for themselves and they wound up killing each other and leaving Israel alone for awhile. They have not proven to themselves or the world that they are ready for an independent state that can live side by side in peace with all their neighbors. When they are truly committed to a permanent lasting peace, then and only then will they have a state.
You asked CSers what they think in your forum and this is what I think.
You asked CSers what they think and this is my view.




romanticman4u: AMEN SISTER AMEN, YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD AND DROVE IT HOME



Absolutely! Both of you have cut out the superfluous coatings to the crux of the issue.thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up



rocketqueen geelong, Victoria Australia
JacobGrimm: Reading this thread provides insight into the methods of war mongers and the simplistic ability to find soldiers/people who will throw rocks for them without knowing why they do.

Many will answer the beat of the drum, ... some will ask wtf is that gd noise.... and few will ignore the noise and ask the one beating the drum why he does this.

here, here jacob................applause



JacobGrimm Blah blah, Ontario Canada
RayfromUSA:

Manipulating public opinion is the most important part of modern warfare.


Recursive inundation. Little memes with giant dreams.
LILLYLADY 10 Sneeze Town, Ohio USA
gordy22222: who lifted that damn rock



rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing Keep smiling Gordy. Your humour is very funny. You're a ray of sunshine here.




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