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Yes, lets call a spade a spade here.

The US created both the Taliban and Al Qaida, armed them and funded them.
They still do.
Such CIA sponsored "terrorists" are the excuse for the US occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

There really is no "war" going on.
Just an elaborate hoax that requires a few casualties on both sides from time to time in order to perpetuate the occupation.
So the troops kill some civilians and call them terrorists.
And hired mercenaries set a few roadside bombs to kill Americans.

Revenge breeds reveng .hatred breeds hatred .Greed breeds doom. Military conflicts are not the solution for any problems . The root cause of all the conflicts in Mideast is the greed for oil..This is the same reason why US is not taking any action against Pakistan . Its the Gateway to the central Asials rich un explored oil fields . a county close to Iran .their faithful base next to Iran .Though the whole world know that Pakistan is the centre of terror US has sanctioned an aid of 30 billion USD to pakistan . That money will be channeld to create terror infrastures in Afganisan and Eastern Provinces of Pakistan .we are mixing a deadly cocktail of religon and Oil.thousand pay for this with their lives . We cannot find the Weapons of Mass distruction in Iraq .but we found a lots of oil and billions worth of contracts . We will never hunt down Osama .we will never dismantle Taliban , these are the counter weights that keeps US interests in Balance in this region

I see that the israelis have massacred over 40 civilans in a school but of course its not their fault they are "innocent" and as usual we l have the same people justifying cold blooded murder. Can you imagine the reaction if 600+ Israelis or *God forbid* Americans were so calously slaughtered?

Palestinians are considered sub-human, their lives are cheap and expendable.

Hello Nora,
Thank you for being polite in your words in spite of your anger and heartache for your people.
You keep asking who cares in your thread. I happen to care and lived there at some point in my life. But as I have said before, if your own elected leaders cannot live in peace with their own people over there, then they will certainly not gain respect from the world community because they are not ready for a peaceful country of their own. It was very obvious to the world how Hamas rules when they were given a chance for a co-ruling govt with Fatah. Do you recall many large protests around the world when the co-ruling Arabic peoples in Gaza couldn't settle their own differences peacefully?

As for the history of the Middleast, you as well as I know that Jews have been there since Abraham, being he is your forefather as well. The land is given to the Jews in the Old Testament and their descendants through Abraham, Issac, Jacob etc. However, the Koranic version may see it differently. I will not argue biblical scripture or Koran. However, the reality is that both people have lived there throughout time and have legitimate claims.
The Jews over the centuries have been moved or were forced out of that area and back in again through many wars and empires that have taken over in that area of the world for 1000s of years. But many were not able to get back so there is a diaspora of Jewish descendants all over the world. Surely the Arabic peoples were shifted around too for similar reasons.

During WW1, the Turks who ruled the area were very cruel to the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews joined with the British to fight off the Turks and thus the British took the area. The Jews were very welcomed by Emir Feisal then and Arab support was given for the British Balfour Declaration to give the Jews a homeland, a patch of barren land with malaria swamps and tuberculosis infestation in the Mideast. Also with the Balfour Declaration, the British offered independence to Arabs who would help battle the Turks. This became a conflict of interests and the beginning of trouble.
The Arabs now began the open slaughtering of the unarmed Jews. Independence to the Arabs meant total control over all the land. Sir Winston Churchill split Palestine east of the Jordan River and gave to to the Arabs, 3/4ths of what was to be Jewish homeland promised. That was TransJordan, now Jordan, home of the original Palesinian people.

By 1947, the British gave the United Nations to decide the fate of Palestine. The Partition Plan ratified by the United Nations decided to partition Palestine, making a Jewish state and an Arab state with Jerusalem divided.Give both sides a piece of the land seemed reasonable enough to most people except the Arabs. 2 days later, the Jews were attacked by the Arabs again.

May 14,1948-Palestine is now an official Jewish state-within minutes...5 Arab countries attacked it, unsuccessfully.
June 5,1967-6 Day War-Israel is attacked from all sides again. Now Israel has some of their land and will not give it back without a promise of peace.
1973-Yom Kippur War- Egypt and Syria attack. The Suez became part of Israel. Later given back to Egypt for a peace treaty that is still in effect. Thanks to a very brave leader Sadat. My point in writing this history Nora is that I truly believe that if Hamas would have the foresight to follow in the courage of Sadat, I truly believe that they would be recognized and be given that land and more. In spite of Sadat's warrior past, I will always have my respect for this man for his courage and honor to his people.
(To be continued pt 2 to Nora)

(Part 2 to Nora)

In closing, I too have a connection to the Mideast as you rightfully have. I had the opportunity to live on a Kibbutz on the Lebanon border and watched the fighter jets go back and forth between Lebanon and Israel everyday. I lived in the bomb shelters too, I heard the machine guns as we were protected only by a stockade with watchtowers over the kibbutz. I picked fruit always worried if I stepped in the wrong place or picked up something on the ground, was it booby trapped underneath? The terrorists do not care when you die that you are a non Zionist. That's not their concern.The chain link barbed wire border fence was right there next to the fruit orchards.
You ask who is a Jew. I am the 3rd here to tell you that I am. I will also tell you that I also lost much of my family in the holocaust so I do have feelings for what you are questioning.I will also tell you that my heart is breaking for the deaths on both sides that are happening. One life lost is too much!! The children on both sides are the ones who will be affected for generations to come unless the leaders on both sides have the courage and foresight of Anwar Sadat to sign a lasting peace agreement. May Allah and our God of Abraham both guide that peace process. I have a true profound saddness.

That would be just too easy,for everyone to drop their hatred.
It's easier to hate than to make Peace.We have seen over 60 years of it.Both sides need to stop shooting,and desist from doing so again.Tall Order,considering the accumulated hatred on both sides,but the only solution!

Hezbollah- Will they hide amongst their civilians too and start firing at Israel suddenly? One can only hope that Lebanon's leaders have reined them in by this point.
I do not beleive that the Lebanese people want any more bombs or Israeli soldiers coming over into their borders again. It would make sense to leave Israel alone. The international community rebuilt Lebanon after Hezbollah's mistake. Attacking Israel would cause civil war in Lebanon between their own people.

Well of course its not their fault.
How could anything ever possibly be their fault?
They are the "chosen".
The world exists only for the chosen.
Other nations exist only to serve the chosen.

In the words of one of their great sages, the beloved "Rambam" Maimonides,
"Even the best among the gentiles should be killed";


And then there is the Rabbi Perrin who said (in his eulogy for mass murderer Baruch Goldstein who used an assault rifle to kill 29 Palestinians, mostly women and children, as they worshipped in a mosque in Palestine)
"A million Arabs are not worth one Jewish fingernail"

This tradition is maintained today by certain sects of Judaism such as Chabad Lubavitch. Rabbi Yitshak Ginsburgh commented on the views of the founder of the Lubacitch sect, Shneur Zalman, concerning gentiles (goyim):

"As for the goyim…Zalman’s attitude (was): “Gentile souls are of a completely different and inferior order. They are totally evil, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.” …If every simple cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of (Jewish) DNA is a part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA. Jewish life has an infinite value,”...
“There is something infinitely more holy and unique about Jewish life than non-Jewish life".
"If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that."

Indeed that's not just theory. It is happening.

Israeli Minister of Health, Nessim Dahhan, tacitly admitted to the practice in an answer to Arab Knesset member Ahmed Teibi.

Dahhan said, in response to a question by Teibi, that he couldn't deny that organs of Palestinian youths and children killed by the Israeli forces were extracted for transplants or scientific research.

Teibi had received credible evidence that Israeli doctors at the forensic institute had extracted such vital organs as the heart, kidneys,and liver from the bodies of Palestinian children killed by the Israeli Army in Gaza and the West Bank.

In the case in question, the Israeli Army killed three Palestinian boys, ages 14-15 near Khan Younison on December 30, 2001. The army issued conflicting reports on the killing, while Palestinian witnesses charged that Israeli troops had murdered the three unarmed boys in cold blood.

The bodies were later handed over to Palestinians for burial. However, Palestinian medical authorities examined the bodies and found that the main vital organs were missing.

The practice was also observed when the Israelis were beseiging the Church of the Nativity in Palestine a few years ago. Emergency medical vehicles at the scene were used, not to try to save wounded Palestinians, but to quickly extract their organs.

Hideing amongst civilians lol gaza is a tiny enclave with over a million people squashed in theres not too many places to 'hide' the entire area is saturated with civilains the very civilians that israel have murdered. I know that you are appeaser of murder and as such you shall continue to appeas and support the deaths of women and children with your perverse reasoning 'perverse reasoning' remind you of anyhing in history? .
The brilliant Goebels srategy of blaming the victim for everything if only you didnt...you forced us to... etc etc. A cool blooded calculated murder machine thats what israel has evoled into. The jewish people in Israel have become what they despise the very most, if only they could see it.

Yet another Version of "The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

I agree Conrad.

Hello again my INCA friend. I´m back. I´m watching. But do you think that the chosen ones will ever stoop so low as to admit their guilt? I don`t think so and I don`t want to waste too much energy arguing with a nation of self righteous swine. After all the god of Abraham has always given them the priviledge of invading anybody they choose and to murder every living thing including the livestock and even the grass that the cattle eat. The only ones that are allowed to survive are the young girls that ``have not known man for these you shall save for yourselves`` so that thou shalt ravish their fresh bodies for such is the law of the almighty god of Abraham and who will dare dispute such a monster whose greatest hobby is to watch innocent souls fry in HELL?

Seam

Seems to me that this particular incident occurred when Hamas, (which is the elected government of Palestine) broke a ceasefire and began firing rockets into Israel. That their deliberate attempts to kill Israeli civilians and, once in a while accidentally killing the odd soldier is not mentioned. Instead, you focus on the response that Israel, like any responsible government would take, which was to secure their citizens from further attack. Here, unlike the Hamas attacks which precipitated this event, Israel deliberately attempts to kill Hamas militants and, accidentally kills women and children.

The fact that Hamas, during all this fighting, is still lobbing rockets into Israel while occupying bagttle positions which endanger civilians in order to deliberately kill Israeli women and children is proof of how little they care for the welfare of their own people.

So, if the elected government of Palestine does not give a hoot for their own people and, by their actions, endangers them and virtually pleads for hostile intervention by Israel in order to save Israeli lives, you expect Israel to forfeit their people's lives in deliberate intentional murder in favor of Palestinian lives which may come to harm accidentally?

Hello there RAYfromUSA... I like to inform you that I am skipping reading the bullshit that the jews are justifying their actions with on this forum. The only ones worth reading are yours and my INCA friend. At least both of you make sense and hit the target. I´ll just let them keep on receiving the blessing of the Abraham god for the slaughter. I just don`t have the energy to waste any more of my precious time on swine.

Geez... they aren't done yet?.... what's the body count up to?

zee

You don't have my sympathy. And I see how you refer to the term "you." You are very sure that I am your culprit( you who lives in Ireland) You turn a blind eye to the murders and suicide bombers who truly enjoyed blowing up innocent civilians in Israel, women and children included. Nah, their lives count for nothing at all in the whole scheme of things I guess according to you. No, I don't buy into your hateful B.S. that I have been reading all along nor do I buy into most other hate and profanity that I have read all along throughout this thread. I have much respect for Nora as she has at least tried to write in some civility with the pain she has felt for her people throughout this. If she should change her words to words of hate for me such as you have, only then will I think differently of her.
But for you, I disdain the hate that you spew on this forum. But of course, you are free to write and think as you choose and share that with others. That is what freedom of speech is about.
I will not have any further words for you after this as I have stated my point here. It is better for me to remain silent than waste my time on your rhetorical nonsense no matter how much hate or rhetoric you may spew on this site or be directed at me or any Jew for that matter who is following this.

if you know that you your children can be hurt, then you should as a parent have common sense enough not to start fighting

where would they go, since for some, the fight is not wanted.


Are your doors open, is your wallet open? Is your heart open? Are you a place of refuge or a constant deluge of hardass opinion only?

exactly , you hit the nail on the head

the more clever ones live in Israel , had become Israeli , or moved somewhere else and start a new life in another country