Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share !

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linarl: I think you missed my point, why to build a state in 1948 for Jews on other people lands to start with? Judiasm is a religion and religions should be practiced privately. It is something spiritual between a person and their "god" whatever that is. Why do all the killing that has been going on since 1948 to establish a state in the middle of Arab world?
As for your word democracy, it is funny here because when you bring millions of Jews from all over the world and stuck them in Palestine and say what is the majority? democracy loses its meaning. It is an artificial democracy.
As I told you before Mr. Leolove you need to read the facts again. Israel needs to be disarmed, needs to realize that what has been going on since 1948 should stop, they need peace more than anyone else. and yes, with no conditions as in the past...


[color=darkblue]Um, the last I checked Judiasm is A Religion AND a Race.comfort



nora83 Amman Jordan
LILLYLADY: Thank you Nora for your response. You have my admiration and respect for all the pain that you feel in your heart.

I have also just read on today's CNN a commentary by Arsalan Ilftikhar where he believes both sides are wrong in Gaza. He blames Hamas for provoking Israel with missle fire and then the disproportionate use of military retaliation by the Israelis. The entire article gives one pause to think with some deep thinking, being written by a man of middle eastern Islamic decent.
Bottom line here Nora is that both sides of the civilians have suffered, emotionally and physically. It will either come down to where Hamas is totally surrounded and will either hide themselves and shoot and continue to put their civilians in the crossfire or have the courage to lay down their weapons and sign a permanent peace treaty with Israel. I believe the Palestinian peoples future and recognition for statehood lies in having the honor to sign a peace treaty and permanently honor it. No more rockets into Israel, no more human life shed on either side.
They would not be the first to sign a peace treaty with the enemy in the entire history of the world. Japan and Egypt are examples of what could be acheived with a lasting peace with their sworn enemy...a chance for future generations. It has to be a lasting peace Nora for your people to have a chance. Please correct me if I'm wrong in stating that Japan and Egypt overall live in peace with their prior enemies. No bombs being dropped on each other that is.
Again, thanks for your posting.



its true that both sides are suffering , but we cant compare the disasters which the Palestinians are having , with the " suffering " the Israelies are facing, bcz so far , Palestinians lost over 660 , and over 2500 are injuired , while Isrealies lost less than 10 , is there any room for comparison here ? plus please note that in addition to the non stop raids , there is no enough food , no medication, no water , no petrol , sometimes no electrecity , the hospitals are mesirable , started to look like rest rooms not hospitals , and the borders are closed still ! can you still compare the suffering !
leolove1 The Hague, Zuid-Holland Netherlands
that was a choice made in 1948 . Jewish were already coming to that land in the end of the 19th century . So anyway , sooner or later they were ruling the country anyhow ,since they became the fast majority , that is democracy . And it seemed to be the right choice at that time , they wanted to go back to the land that ones was theirs,before they were chased away by the "palestinians"
linarl: I think you missed my point, why to build a state in 1948 for Jews on other people lands to start with? Judiasm is a religion and religions should be practiced privately. It is something spiritual between a person and their "god" whatever that is. Why do all the killing that has been going on since 1948 to establish a state in the middle of Arab world?
As for your word democracy, it is funny here because when you bring millions of Jews from all over the world and stuck them in Palestine and say what is the majority? democracy loses its meaning. It is an artificial democracy.
As I told you before Mr. Leolove you need to read the facts again. Israel needs to be disarmed, needs to realize that what has been going on since 1948 should stop, they need peace more than anyone else. and yes, with no conditions as in the past...



linarl Boston, Massachusetts USA
Really? A race, interesting. When it became a race? It is now added to white, asian, african, native american? I should tell them in the US to added on their applications

And this new race needs to kill everyone in the area to have a place to live? Peace would have been easier and faster way to do so. I wished that they were wiser in 1948 and even now..
Hugz_n_Kissez Someplace, Ontario Canada
Antjo39: Oh my fooken god! you are a machine, baby! The bad thing is that you are giving me too much work in analysing all this material and going through other related readings (and I have to do a lot of my work for my fucking bread winning!!)
Anyway, thanks for the info!!

A sex machine too?



This is all from the same link silly I'm just copying and pasting the info done by the Jews for Justice...there is a lot of valuable info offered in the info they compiled....oh and Maybe...wave wink roll eyes laugh grin hug kiss
Drewski Olds, Alberta Canada
Nora
In response to: can you still compare the suffering !


Nope. It's obvious that Palestinians should embrace peace and stop lobbing rockets into Israel. Possibly, when this is over they may see the errors of the ways of Hamas and elect a government that will be serious about making agreements that lead to a lasting peace.



nora83 Amman Jordan
LILLYLADY: Thank you Nora for your response. You have my admiration and respect for all the pain that you feel in your heart.

Bottom line here Nora is that both sides of the civilians have suffered, emotionally and physically. It will either come down to where Hamas is totally surrounded and will either hide themselves and shoot and continue to put their civilians in the crossfire or have the courage to lay down their weapons and sign a permanent peace treaty with Israel. I believe the Palestinian peoples future and recognition for statehood lies in having the honor to sign a peace treaty and permanently honor it. No more rockets into Israel, no more human life shed on either side.
They would not be the first to sign a peace treaty with the enemy in the entire history of the world. Japan and Egypt are examples of what could be acheived with a lasting peace with their sworn enemy...a chance for future generations. It has to be a lasting peace Nora for your people to have a chance. Please correct me if I'm wrong in stating that Japan and Egypt overall live in peace with their prior enemies. No bombs being dropped on each other that is.
Again, thanks for your posting.


today i saw the news and knew that israel sent some raids against two schools that belongs to UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East ) , they are all kids out there , most of the kids died , just bcz they were going to school to attend their classes , please note that such bulidings ( of UNRWA ) never contain Hamas members , how can they inter , or store weapons inside , there are guards and security guys out there , and still ! most of the kids died . they were not shooting , there was no Hamas members out there , its surely not a weapon store , then why ? please explain !
leolove1 The Hague, Zuid-Holland Netherlands
how come that so many Arabs can live in peace with the Jewish and are Israeli themselves
doesn't that ring a bell?
leolove1: that was a choice made in 1948 . Jewish were already coming to that land in the end of the 19th century . So anyway , sooner or later they were ruling the country anyhow ,since they became the fast majority , that is democracy . And it seemed to be the right choice at that time , they wanted to go back to the land that ones was theirs,before they were chased away by the "palestinians"



moses istanbul, Marmara Turkey
CiTenorSax.

Actually sometimes we are doing same wrong.We are thinking Jews same with israil.Sory.

I want to know this perhaps you can explain.

The curusaders are killed jews with müslümans and orthodox in Kudus an jews are refuged to Islamic country Fatimi.(I dont know how do you know this country.Its araund Eygipt)

In 1376 many jews refuged to Ottoman they were coming from Hungaria.In 1394 they came from France and Sicilya.

In 1492 years Spanish was destroying jews wit arabs and we are carry jews to Selanik with Ottoman navy.When germans are burning jews again many jews are came to Türkiye too. All of this jews are a part our country and we love them.

Now an information for you. Patriarch Sophronius leaved Kudus to Chalip Ömer with a few condition.One of was this.
-Islam authority wil not leave to jews for turn back to Kudus.

Strange because you are there with helping of Biritish.But again
Christians are destroyed jews or drive out ,but muslims was accept you among history as a guest.

Now why you prefer to be enemy of Müslümans.Because christians arent your allians.

Israil is drive out Filistines from their own country now I think even they send a rocket to somewher thats mean their bombing their own country.I think israil is terorist not hamas.

Zechariah 9/5 Ashkelon shall see it, and fear; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful, and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed; and the king shall perish from Gaza, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.

6 And a bastard shall dwell in Ashdod, and I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.

7 And I will take away his blood out of his mouth, and his abominations from between his teeth: but he that remaineth, even he, shall be for our God, and he shall be as a governor in Judah, and Ekron as a Jebusite.


And what is this verses mean killing filistines is a worship in your religion.

love you



linarl Boston, Massachusetts USA
Interesting...laugh
Please read the history, they were 50,000 and now they became millions, so they were coming. huh?laugh
What a democracy..
Following your argument, let's ask all the native Americans in the world to gather and come claim their lands from all people who are living now in the US. Yeah, killing according to you is the way...after all their ancestors bodies are buried under those grounds.
No, it did not make sense in 1948 and won't make sense now to build your state on killing and terror as Israel has been doing since it decided to establish a state in Palestine..
Chased away? why do you like to visualize Jews as the ultimate victim always? Is that what get others sympathy? We are talking about people who stood for pharaoh and let their belief guards and directs them. My jews friends would accept the word "chased". What is going on now is for the benefit of some Israelis and not for benefit of all Jews. Peace is the way and it should be...



linarl Boston, Massachusetts USA
linarl: Interesting...
Please read the history, they were 50,000 and now they became millions, so they were coming. huh?
What a democracy..
Following your argument, let's ask all the native Americans in the world to gather and come claim their lands from all people who are living now in the US. Yeah, killing according to you is the way...after all their ancestors bodies are buried under those grounds.
No, it did not make sense in 1948 and won't make sense now to build your state on killing and terror as Israel has been doing since it decided to establish a state in Palestine..
Chased away? why do you like to visualize Jews as the ultimate victim always? Is that what get others sympathy? We are talking about people who stood for pharaoh and let their belief guards and directs them. My jews friends would accept the word "chased". What is going on now is for the benefit of some Israelis and not for benefit of all Jews. Peace is the way and it should be...


My response above is to Mr. Leolove
Drewski Olds, Alberta Canada
Linarl
In response to: No, it did not make sense in 1948 and won't make sense now to build your state on killing and terror as Israel has been doing since it decided to establish a state in Palestine..


Actually, in 1948 Israel accepted UN Resolution 181, it was the Arab states that did not and attacked it. Not the other way around.



nora83 Amman Jordan
leolove1: if you make a neutral state that is ruled by the majority , you will end up in the same way , that is democracy , if you like it or not, the country will be ruled by the Jewish
and it was a piece of dessert , with some small dwellings as i mentioned before . all the academics , theaters and so on were found in Jerusalem and some tiny villages
but the fast aria was dessert, I think that you might find a better geological source



well .. you are not choosing the intellectual way of discussing Sir , im telling you to do some more reading reagarding the history of palestine , and its civilisation before 1948 , im telling you facts here , if you read more , you will find out more , and these books are not written but palestinians , it was written and some pitures aslo were taken and some other photos were drawn by some famous orientalist , they are Europians . you are not duscussing the idea refering to some facts , but you are reffering to wat you want and wat you want to hear , and it does work this way .
LILLYLADY 10 Sneeze Town, Ohio USA
nora83: its true that both sides are suffering , but we cant compare the disasters which the Palestinians are having , with the " suffering " the Israelies are facing, bcz so far , Palestinians lost over 660 , and over 2500 are injuired , while Isrealies lost less than 10 , is there any room for comparison here ? plus please note that in addition to the non stop raids , there is no enough food , no medication, no water , no petrol , sometimes no electrecity , the hospitals are mesirable , started to look like rest rooms not hospitals , and the borders are closed still ! can you still compare the suffering !


Nora, it is not the amount of casualties on each side that is the issue as you may believe. Death is death no matter how many on each side, be it 1 or 100s. Truly, the Israeli army could totally anihilate your people to a zero population but that is not the goal or it would have been accomplished by now.
7-8 yrs of raids of rockets shot into Israel further and further in without these Israeli civilians lobbing the rockets back is enough already. And the suicide bombers in the market places! Many Jewish lives lost to each one suicide bomber. Those innocent civilians didn't stand a chance. Truces don't work. Yes,Israeli people want it to stop but did the Palestinian Hamas? Since the rockets didn't stop, the military has gone in to put a stop to it. Hamas rocket firing has brought devastation to your people. It is no doubt extremely painful to endure but the rockets will stop eventually when Hamas stops.
I will add that I have always been totally abhored what an Israeli fanatic did at the Dome of the Rock many years ago. Those people praying were totally innocent of any terror and did not deserve the fate they got. I have been in the Dome of the Rock and revered it's beauty and the tranquility it bestows. It was wrong to happen. I will never condone any Jew who gloats in joy at the death of those people who were in there praying. Nor will I condone the joy of anyone who revels at the death of an innocent Jew.
We write what we see and feel in our hearts Nora. The pain is there on both sides.
I am sure I will be damned and criticized by many here for my thinking as people are readily willing to attack anyone and incite anger. However, I feel civility with the way you communicate Nora. You write out of pain in your heart for a people who suffering terribly for the arrogance of Hamas.



nora83 Amman Jordan
leolove1: if you make a neutral state that is ruled by the majority , you will end up in the same way , that is democracy , if you like it or not, the country will be ruled by the Jewish
and it was a piece of dessert , with some small dwellings as i mentioned before . all the academics , theaters and so on were found in Jerusalem and some tiny villages
but the fast aria was dessert, I think that you might find a better geological source



how is that ? dimocracy ?? and if i like it or not ?

define dimocracy then please
Hugz_n_Kissez Someplace, Ontario Canada
Was the partition plan fair to both Arabs and Jews?

“Arab rejection was...based on the fact that, while the population of the Jewish state was to be [only half] Jewish with the Jews owning less than 10% of the Jewish state land area, the Jews were to be established as the ruling body — a settlement which no self-respecting people would accept without protest, to say the least...The action of the United Nations conflicted with the basic principles for which the world organization was established, namely, to uphold the right of all peoples to self-determination. By denying the Palestine Arabs, who formed the two-thirds majority of the country, the right to decide for themselves, the United Nations had violated its own charter.” Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”
Were the Zionists prepared to settle for the territory granted in the 1947 partition?

“While the Yishuv’s leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israel’s society — including...Ben-Gurion — were opposed to or extremely unhappy with partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state’s borders beyond the UN earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians.” Israeli historian, Benny Morris, in “Tikkun”, March/April 1998.
Public vs private pronouncements on this question.

“In internal discussion in 1938 [David Ben-Gurion] stated that ‘after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine’...In 1948, Menachem Begin declared that: ‘The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever.” Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”

The war begins

“In December 1947, the British announced that they would withdraw from Palestine by May 15, 1948. Palestinians in Jerusalem and Jaffa called a general strike against the partition. Fighting broke out in Jerusalem’s streets almost immediately...Violent incidents mushroomed into all-out war...During that fateful April of 1948, eight out of thirteen major Zionist military attacks on Palestinians occurred in the territory granted to the Arab state.” “Our Roots Are Still Alive” by the People Press Palestine Book Project.
Zionists’ disrespect of partition boundaries

“Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution.” British author, Henry Cattan, “Palestine, The Arabs and Israel.”

(Cont'd)....wine wine
Antjo39 Pucara, Puno Peru
LILLYLADY: Nora, it is not the amount of casualties on each side that is the issue as you may believe. Death is death no matter how many on each side, be it 1 or 100s. Truly, the Israeli army could totally anihilate your people to a zero population but that is not the goal or it would have been accomplished by now.
7-8 yrs of raids of rockets shot into Israel further and further in without these Israeli civilians lobbing the rockets back is enough already. And the suicide bombers in the market places! Many Jewish lives lost to each one suicide bomber. Those innocent civilians didn't stand a chance. Truces don't work. Yes,Israeli people want it to stop but did the Palestinian Hamas? Since the rockets didn't stop, the military has gone in to put a stop to it. Hamas rocket firing has brought devastation to your people. It is no doubt extremely painful to endure but the rockets will stop eventually when Hamas stops.
I will add that I have always been totally abhored what an Israeli fanatic did at the Dome of the Rock many years ago. Those people praying were totally innocent of any terror and did not deserve the fate they got. I have been in the Dome of the Rock and revered it's beauty and the tranquility it bestows. It was wrong to happen. I will never condone any Jew who gloats in joy at the death of those people who were in there praying. Nor will I condone the joy of anyone who revels at the death of an innocent Jew.
We write what we see and feel in our hearts Nora. The pain is there on both sides.
I am sure I will be damned and criticized by many here for my thinking as people are readily willing to attack anyone and incite anger. However, I feel civility with the way you communicate Nora. You write out of pain in your heart for a people who suffering terribly for the arrogance of Hamas.

And not arrogance from the Israeli gov. Lilly?
Hugz_n_Kissez Someplace, Ontario Canada
Culpability for escalation of the fighting

“Menahem Begin, the Leader of the Irgun, tells how ‘in Jerusalem, as elsewhere, we were the first to pass from the defensive to the offensive...Arabs began to flee in terror...Hagana was carrying out successful attacks on other fronts, while all the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter’...The Israelis now allege that the Palestine war began with the entry of the Arab armies into Palestine after 15 May 1948. But that was the second phase of the war; they overlook the massacres, expulsions and dispossessions which took place prior to that date and which necessitated Arab states’ intervention.” Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.

The Deir Yassin Massacre of Palestinians by Jewish soldiers


“For the entire day of April 9, 1948, Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion...The attackers ‘lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,’...The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country.” Israeli author, Simha Flapan, “The Birth of Israel.”

General Considerations

Israel has sought peace with its Arab neighbor states but has steadfastly refused to negotiate with Palestinians directly, until the last few years. Why?

“My friend, take care. When you recognize the concept of ‘Palestine’, you demolish your right to live in Ein Hahoresh. If this is Palestine and not the Land of Israel, then you are conquerors and not tillers of the land. You are invaders. If this is Palestine, then it belongs to a people who have lived here before you came. Only if it is the Land of Israel do you have a right to live in Ein Hahoresh and in Deganiyah B. If it is not your country, your fatherland, the country of your ancestors and of your sons, then what are you doing here? You came to another people’s homeland, as they claim, you expelled them and you have taken their land.” Menahem Begin, quoted in Noam Chomsky’s “Peace in the Middle East?”

More from the horse’s mouth

“Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion, quoted in “The Jewish Paradox” by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.

More from the horse’s mouth


“Before [the Palestinians] very eyes we are possessing the land and the villages where they, and their ancestors, have lived...We are the generation of colonizers, and without the steel helmet and the gun barrel we cannot plant a tree and build a home.” Israeli leader Moshe Dayan, quoted in Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, “Original Sins: Reflections on the History of Zionism and Israel”


More from the horse’s mouth


“The Arabs will be our problem for a long time,” Weizmann said, “It’s not going to be simple.One day they may have to leave and let us have the country. They’re ten to one, but don’t we Jews have ten times their intelligence?” Zionist leader Chaim Weizmann in 1919 at the Paris peace conference, quoted in Ella Winter, “And Not To Yield.”



wine wine
leolove1 The Hague, Zuid-Holland Netherlands
sorry ,I do not get your point and I think that you do not get mine . my way of thinking is of another level. my approach is that of a different way , not one with hate , but understanding where things go wrong and the wrong thinking and solving problems of people , you seems not to be able to get my point , because you are too mixed up in your own emotions , what is understandable
did i ever say that they were not coming ?
big deal , how many people from the middle-east come to live in Europe, huh?
Berlin is the second largest turkish city in the world
so , wake up , there is more going on in the world than that little piece of land
try to think more differently , and work towards a world were people live together , without fighting for land
the whole world is for everybody !!! stop always digging in the past
than we must hate every country , cos there is no country that hasn't done anything wrong

linarl: My response above is to Mr. Leolove



nora83 Amman Jordan
linarl: I think you missed my point, why to build a state in 1948 for Jews on other people lands to start with? Judiasm is a religion and religions should be practiced privately. It is something spiritual between a person and their "god" whatever that is. Why do all the killing that has been going on since 1948 to establish a state in the middle of Arab world?
As for your word democracy, it is funny here because when you bring millions of Jews from all over the world and stuck them in Palestine and say what is the majority? democracy loses its meaning. It is an artificial democracy.
As I told you before Mr. Leolove you need to read the facts again. Israel needs to be disarmed, needs to realize that what has been going on since 1948 should stop, they need peace more than anyone else. and yes, with no conditions as in the past...


very well said , thank you




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