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we as humans are littrally screwing ourselves away from a place at the global breckfast table we have a world population of what 6.5 billion just how many do you think earth can support. our resorses are dwindling at a fast rate, our population << as in humanity>is going to race face first into a very hard wall my unedducated guess is possably a hundred years << question>> how do you see your great grandchildren living in2109 and do you care??? are you going to add population <kids >to the already bad problem short term future ... i saw the movie and read the book 1984 sure made me think an i was just a kid. i started thinking about this 1968 ,,my wife and i had 2 kids i worrie about their grandkids,,, this is heavey shit for a dating site,,, i am almost 63 im damn glad im not 20 right now i dont want to see the next 40 yrs, dont get the idea that i think the whole world is totaly black future but you aint gonna see it like the last 50 how many wars are going on this minute?? money problems greed conrad black enron gm frod christer aig the list goes .. one central global government ,buildbergers i dont like that idea at all i would not like < i would hate>to be more of a slave than i am right now . and i am one independent son of a bitch. i dont want anyone to control me i hate authoritly that is stupid and brain dead at all levels and i dont want to control others ,, if your still reading ,,get your head out of the sand ,wake up smell the coffee think about where the rest of your and your kids lives is going 100 yrs,, J M O

There is still a problem here. Equal representation of democracy implies that one person (or country in this case) is not more empowered than another.

Here is the problem. If you go strickly to a equal vote of countries....1 vote per country. Lichenstien that has a small population of 2 million has equal vote to China (1 billion people). Lichenstien, its people, and government has more voting power than China, its people and government.

The Fore father of the United States addressed the problem by having the Senate and House....the Senate where every state had the same voting power AND the House where population size would gain votes power for the state. They compromised and figured a way to make equality and equal representation work.

When they were setting up the Charter of the United Nations. They had to see the same problem developing. Large countries in the General Assembly were going to be under represented and smaller countries over represented by their population size.

For better or worse they opted for a General Assembly of 1 vote per country and security council of the major countries with rotating of some smaller countries to sit.

It is simply not an easy problem to address. Countries populations change, indeed countries fail or change in size.

What I do agree is the General Assembly does needs a means to impress its will on the life members of the security council.
I don't disagree with that. If the world says to the United States or Russia or China....you cannot do this or you should do this.....they should not have the power to off hand to veto it. To me that is in the spirit of the UN and its concept.

That being said the security council need ways to impress it will on a rogue and defiant smaller countries.

Think back to the cold war....you basically had voting blocs within the UN. And today you have voting blocs as well. Rogue countries that can get a voting bloc in the General Assembly can block any attempt of the UN to correct them. Major countries use voting blocs to thier political agendas.

Think about it for moment. The US goes after Iraq....Russia goes after Georgia....Isreal goes after Hamas in Gaza....Iran is ready to go after Isreal....China would like a peice of Tiawan...Pakistan and India are fighting over Kashmir. etc,etc, etc,etc...

With the A bomb....big countries quickly learned that going after a nuclear power was not wise. But going after a small fish in the other guys neck of the block was smart thing to do. Fingers could be pointed for problems of the country....at a foreign group. There is the source of your problems.

If the UN is going to become a organization of keeping world peace, its own internal politics has to be above reproach. Less I say Iraq's Oil for Food program at this point. And it needs to figure out the big fish little fish conflict resolution to become effective in that charge. And it needs to figure out equal representation of smaller countries and large countries.jmo

Fair points, maybe weighted voting like in elections?

I totally agree.
Thank you.

By "Majority Rule " you mean "Mob-Rule"?As you see practiced in today's UN.
What you desire is GLEICH-Schaltung!

Yes, it is 100% true. Thank you Steevyv for your input. More people experiences (not only opinions) related to the topic discussed is welcomed and needed on this forum.
As we connect on this website and elsewhere, it is great to share our own experiences, that is what may make us change as people in our minds and hearts.
The thing is with what is going on in Gaza and debating over it here on CS for three weeks that I felt some already made their minds way before coming to participate in the threads… as if it was their duty to defend Israel in whatever it does. They argue and argue repeating the same motto of Israel defending itself, which the world does not believe hence the protests around the world for Gaza, rejecting what Israel has been doing of killing civilians. People who feel that what Palestinians have been going through for the past 60 years (like myself) is injustice and there is unnecessary excessive use of power of Israel in Gaza also presented their point of views BUT:
Regardless of the political and military results this war come to, history will mention it in its blackest book because of the massacres Israel has been committing against Palestinian children everyday for the past three weeks.
Humans are responsible in front of history to force change to take place. We have to make it happen!!

Damn,haven't we arrived ta our Favorite Theme again?

Well, sometimes I like to ask questions with obvious answers just to remind myself (and maybe others) of who is doing what.. and for what and at what price..[many open ended questions] Thank you for playing along.

So would not it be great if mass people from all around the world demand for this particular state to behave or be expelled? It seems that the world have been putting up with it for a long long long time..

Yeah, I am a good reader I read it until the end

this is heavey shit for a dating site,,, /quote]

CS offer members the chance to debate over many categories and different topics including politics, BTW (Please check them by clicking on Forums)
I totally understand if this discussion is too heavy for you to participate in. You are excused from debating in this forum and my other forum "human" and any other future threads that I start because probably it is going to be too " heavey" for you too.


Stay well and light

Unfortunately the offer is somewhat limited, due to censorship policies in effect on the site, resulting in banned members and locked or deleted threads. This seems to apply to heavy or light subjects alike, depending on the amount of whining.

That is totally fine, thanks for your post.

It is CS policy as a site and I respect it.
When a member does not like the topic they are free to move on. I check headlines of forums all the time and those I like I participate in (light or serious) and those I do not like I move on to the next. To me it is simple

Thanks for your comment Yeah, talking about Gaza and the massacres that Israel is committing against Palestinian children by the hour for the last three weeks should be the favorite topic to those who care about peace.. all discussions that debate over human rights, UN council, justice/lack of justice could lead to the current events so it is of no surprise that we go back to Gaza

Consider the protest everywhere in the world, they are reminding people who care about peace (like me) that injustice leads to anger and anger leads to violence and when violence erupts, there is no one immune. All the talk about this party is violent or this religion is more violent than others is nonsense. We are humans and humans may get out of their norm for strong reasons. The most peaceful person may get violent when pushed too far. As long as there is excessive use of power and injustice, there will be anger that leads to more violence.

Americans thought there were immune until the dark event of 9/11 occurred that claimed the lives of innocent people. Had the American administration thought about the fact that supporting a state like Israel with its veto right in the UN council over and over would lead to extremists going after the American people everywhere and on US lands as well, maybe things would have changed to many families (Americans, Arabs and Jews) that got affected by this unconditional support since 1948.

Many think nowadays that the current American administration cares about Israelis (do not mix with Jews) more than it cares about the American people. This might/not be true but it brings to mind an idea that the US could give Israel some land in one of the American states and we would all be done with this mess. Palestine is an important spiritual place to three religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) to people who love history and countless others that should be opened to visit, something was going on through history before 1948.

Israel should go after peace not war and should get wise. Israel wanted to end Hamas (democratically elected by people of Gazans) using excessive power against Gazans, thinking that the problem will end soon. This step is backfiring at Israel. Besides the protest by many nationalities that condemns what Israel has done, expelling the Israeli ambassador and his office from Venezuela …etc, the events in Gaza nowadays is reminding Arabs that they are one nation, something that many states including the US tried to make Arabs forget. Furthermore, the event is reminding everyone by Israel dark history of violence.

If I were Israel and has done something terrible like I did in 1948 of massacres (like some in other forums talked about extensively) I would work immediately to make people forget it by going after peace with every state especially my neighbors and make peace with Palestinians. That is when Israel can build a state that may last forever. What is going on in Gaza for three weeks now may be the core of a movement that leads at the end to Israel (do not mix this with Jews) disappears as a state.

Some like to argue that all countries make mistakes and we should move on and forget. Ok, give the people time and reasons to forget and move on, a fact that Israel failed to do over and over and over. Humans that want peace address anger by acknowledging the wrong deed first and by offering compensations and showing good intentions. Something Israel failed to do to Palestinians.

Having said that should we go back to the original topic folks? Or talk more about some current events…

I am thinking General Assembly that has a override of a Security
Council Veto with say a 60 or 70% vote. Like the US Senate 60%
flibuster proof and Executive veto overright.

That way if any of the major powers took a position that the clear majority of the world was against....it could be overruled.

If would leave in place the veto power of the Security Council members. Even let them act unilatally if the world could not reach that override vote.

Think of all the brush fire wars for moment. We can debate the merit of a major power coming into them militarily on a individual case by case basis. There are times when a major power does act in noble manner for the welfare of foreign persons and countries.

Thank you "ttom500" so much for your thorough discussion.
I have some comments and questions so I will copy and paste from your post with emoticoms to easily see (not only because I like using them ).



I agree.

Be well all folks, work is calling I will check it later…

Continuation of the earlier thread post.

None of the security council lifetime members are going to give up the veto. They will quickly think back to Kureschev walking out the UN and Security Council, and the UN passing the Korean resolution that sent the UN into the Korean war.

You try to take away the life time members veto and you have both a losing and a real political dog fight brewing at the UN. They will not give up the veto power.

BUT....will accept (in my opinion) a General Assembly overrule vote of a single lifetime member veto.

There is going to come a day....when the world has another Hitler on its hands, I think. Someone that is rattling the saber in all four points of the compass and within his own country. He could be in a small country or a large one.

If he happens to be on the security council at that time. He simply vetos every attempt to curtail his activities. Remember small countries have terms on the security council as well. That is where a majority plus override vote comes into play. The world sees a militaristic country, it can back it down with both security council votes and a General Assembly overriding vote.

Having said all this. I feel a caveat is needed.

Historically and morally, leaders of countries have obligations to defend their citizens, their country from attacks and violence. Jesus even talked of this...when he asked...why does the government have the sword? He answered himself...that it was in defense of the people.

The United Nations, in my opinion, should not take away the right of a leader to defend and protect his country. It is his sworn duty to do.

That take us back to Israel, Hamas and Gaza. Both sides have agressed here. 3000 Hamas rocket into Isreal were not aimed at military targets but were aimed at Isreali civilian cities and populations. If you look at the names of Isreali killed and injured by those rockets attacks....you will not find military surnames in them. All civilian.

Israel for right or wrong has decided on large scale military operations in Gaza. In that civilians have also been killed and injured. Again an agression.

Today military possess much more than a sword. The weapons are extremely deadly and effective from years of actual use and research and development. One could use the court standards of who threw the first punch or how did them most damage in the fight to give blame. Either way Hamas and Isreal are both to blame.

ttom500 do the world a favour and go into politics. Nice ideas.

Trouble is,that Politics seem to kill the Best within People.
Taking their Souls.

True, sorry ttom500 never mind that last comment.