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Here's a good video about what is really going on in Palestine.

It starts with a female Jewish settler explaining calmly how the settlers intend to steal all the Arab lands. And it is clearly happening.

Then it shifts to a Palestinian Family who because a Jewish settlement has been installed in stolen houses across the street, are continually harassed by the settlers and by the Israeli army.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d95_1182673079

Having re-read this entire thread, I have to wonder at one point raised by our Zionist hater, If pregnant women and sick people were unable to cross the border to Israel and get the medical assistance they required, why then did they attempt.

If I was in dire need of medical supplies and to the left was a closed border to a country that I was at war with, with and occupied by people who supposedly hated me and to the other side was no border as such and a race of people who where the same as me, sorry but I would turn right and go to Jordan.

Oh and another thought, why do the hamas accuse and fight Israel for taking their land but never fight Jordan to return the land they encroached onto?

The problem you have Ray, is that however much propaganda you wish to post the important element has missed you by completely.

That Israel wants peace just as much as everyone else, except for the hamas who think they deserve to have everything.

My apologies to the poster as as I forgotten your name, but
as was said on one thread if the Arab world gave the Israelis one tower block on a half mile square block, the hamas would still say it was to much.

Another interesting video starring Israeli settlers in Palestine.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e1842edc4f

Sorry for my English but I cant resist
The One Matter called Humanity is so primitive that doesn't notice the fact that it feeds itself with itself. There is no winer (who is right) or looser(who is not right) in this process...it can not be! The Whole Matter is failing until it starts to put enough attention and respect to the each mite of itself...not to "eat" it but to save it. Solution??...the Earth without borders, one government and one law to all of us. Are you ready to agree to such a compromise??....it could be a good result of this hard work which
has been done on this forum. If not go sleep Honeys it is waste of time.

Well, the problem you to have Rizlared, is that you don't seem to know much about the reality of the issue at all.

If I post videos showing the actual conditions that Palestinians have to live under even in peacetime, you consider it propoganda.

How can that be?

Why don't you counter by posting videos showing how nice the Israelis are to the Palestinians.

Can't find any huh?
That is tough isn't it?

As for Hamas, you are of course aware that it was Israel that engineered the rise to power of Hamas in Gaza.

The Palestinian Liberation Organization's military wing Fatah, was entirely secular. And there was no way to view their struggle against Israel except as one of poor freedom fighters resisting an army of foreign occupation.

So Israel created, armed, trained and funded the rise of Hamas in order to be able to label the Palestinian movement as Muslim extremism, and thereby to deprive it of any international support.
No nation would dare voice support of Hamas.

For the record, I don't support Hamas either.
I doubt if they were really "elected" in Gaza.
Elections in an occupied country are highly suspect.

But even before Hamas took control of Gaza Israel was already clearly engaged in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Here's one link http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000359.htm

Now this was back in 2005 and only proves that anyone wishing to find information on either side of this issue can do so in a matter of seconds. The constant bickering back and forth, the loose use of terms such as Zionists, Jihadists, Ethnic Cleansing and genocide only serve to increase the irrational and emotional basis of the urinary olympics currently being held in the CS forums.

We could argue these points, the merits of the sources of videos and news items for as long as the strife has been going on in the middle east and it will prove or solve nothing. I'm not referring to you but there are some people on this forum that have nothing better to do with their lives than stir up shit.

The international meddling in this issue has only served to exacerbate the problem. I think it's time for the US and other nations to go hands off and let the cards fall where they may.

One world government????

Well yes, that is what is coming.
Whether we want it or not.

"We will have a World Government, whether we like it or not. The only question is whether this World Government will be reached by conquest or by consent."
James Warburg,
Spoken before the Senate on 17th Feburary, 1950


"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or 'promulgated,' that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this 'scenario', individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government"
Henry Kissinger
Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller

"...The Tri-Lateral Plan calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of 'one world government'... National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept.."
Zbigniew Brzezinski,

"The age of nations must end. The governments of nations have decided to order their separate sovereignties into one government to which they will surrender their arms."
The U.N. World Constitution

"By the end of this decade (2000 AD) we will live under the first One World Government that has ever existed in the society of nations ... a government with absolute authority to decide the basic issues of human survival. One world government is inevitable."
Pope John Paul II
Quoted by Malachi Martin in the book "The Keys of This Blood."

Even the CIA agrees that one world government is coming.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11426

I accept that global government is inevitable,
and I even agree that it will do some good (at least at first).

But since absolute power corrupts absolutely, it will quickly become the greatest dictatorship the world has ever seen.

And who's going to save us then????

ship of fools anyone??

Yeah well there are white people for Hitler and many French people loved him during WW2. In fact many more French kissed Hitler's butt in WW2 than there are jews against zionism.

There are grown-ups who like sex with animals, there are criminals who like kiling innocent people and .....


there are fools like you who try to make a big deal out of it.

Well actually that link isn't really an article at all.
It's a discussion forum and although the first poster supports Israel many others don't. So it doesn't prove anything except that the issue has been around for a long time.



Well I wouldn't really call that "information". There was no substance to it. It was a rant.

Of course my opinions, (and yours too), are not information either.
Information has to be verifiable facts.


... the loose use of terms such as Zionists, Jihadists, Ethnic Cleansing and genocide only serve to increase the irrational and emotional basis of the urinary olympics currently being held in the CS forums.

Oh I'm pretty particular about not using terms loosely.

When I speak of "Ethnic Cleansing" I mean a policy of driving people from their land on the basis of ethnicity.

When I speak of "Genocide" I mean the same thing with the exception that the victims are killed instead of being simply deposessed of everything they own.

When I speak of Zionists I mean those who adhere to Zionism (look it up if you don't know what it means).

As for "Jihadists" I don't think I've ever used the term in my life.


We could argue these points, the merits of the sources of videos and news items for as long as the strife has been going on in the middle east and it will prove or solve nothing.

That's debatable. I know when I hear sound reasoning it affects me. And it can change the way I see things.
But then you're not me.
And that's OK, It takes all kinds.


I'm not referring to you but there are some people on this forum that have nothing better to do with their lives than stir up shit.


Well, to be honest.
It's pretty hard to walk in this world without stirring the shit a bit.


The international meddling in this issue has only served to exacerbate the problem. I think it's time for the US and other nations to go hands off and let the cards fall where they may.

It's about 60 years too late for that.
The US has poured hundreds of billions of dollars into Israel over the years, much of it in the form of military equipment.

If you want to level the playing field and let them fight it out among themselves, first either the US should give the same amount of aid (of all sorts) to the Palestinians, or the US should get everything back that they gave to the Israelis (with interest of course).

But neither of those options is likely to happen.
So forget the level playing field.

The only remaining solution is for the world community to go in and occupy and disarm all of Palestine, even the part that calls itself Israel.

And I believe that WILL happen one day.
Sooner than we might think.

It's not exactly true about France.

There were a lot of collaborators, that's true.
But that was for selfish gain, not love for Naziism.

There were a lot of resistants too who risked being shot if they were caught.

But MOST people were neither collaborators nor resistants.
They just saw the occupation as a fact of life and tried to stay out of the way and live their lives around it as best they could.

And I think that's the wisest choice of action.

But sadly it's not always possible to stay out of the way.
That's the case in Gaza, which is the most densely populated part of the whole planet.



There is no safe place there.

You seem to need a little geography lesson Rizlared.

Gaza has no border with Jordan.
Nor does any Arab part of Palestine nowadays.
All of the Palestinians are concentrated into fenced enclaves with no borders whatsoever with any other country.

Here's a map showing the evolution from 1946 until now.
The green areas are Palestinian controlled the white areas are Israeli occupied.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ucqG1RYIuUA/SWu_teRl64I/AAAAAAAAA4Y/CuAoEy_4jOY/s400/palestine%5B1%5D.jpg

There is one small part of Gaza that touches Egypt, but that is precisely where the Israelis have destroyed all houses and streets and made a no man's land that is impossible for any sort of direct travel or communication between Egypt and Gaza.

All border crossings between any part of Palestine and Jordan are totally controlled by Israel and subject to their represive policies.

That map says it all.

It does doesn't it?

Trish has a good examole going with her "sympathy" thread of how people judge situations on the most flimsy of knowledge.

Knee-jerk reactions are just that!

Politics like you are discussing are complex and difficult, only understood after a complete study of the situation with an unbiased eye.

I agree and it has to be a study of both sides of the issue from all different perspectives....not just one...

Yes and I really think that the historical precedents are very important, If Israel wipes out every Palestinian then they can write the history books

The events in Gaza over the last few weeks are haunting me and will continue to do so for a very long time.

The other thing that upsets me is the incredible weakness and lack of empathy of the opposing argument.

What does a person have to do in order to block out so much human suffering? How can any person feel that just because of a persons colour, religion, or politics that they do not love their children, nor feel exactly the same emotions as everyone else seeing them blown to pieces

I know it bugs me too....but I am just happy that I have an open mind and I see all people as equally important cause we all bleed the same colour and yep have that human aspect in common..and that doesn't give anyone the right to declare superiority over a people and to systematically slaughter them like animals them to rid them of an age old problem...in the name of greed and a religious state either....


The use of chemical weapons by Israel..puts me in mind of Iraq and some of the reasons why we had to save it's people from such a dictator....and the reasons he was tried and sentenced to hang for crimes against humanity and war crimes....Yet...nobody seems to be drawing the same parallel here...or is it different because he was killing his own people with chemical weapons and not the supposed enemy..which have been mainly women...children and elderly people....