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I already saw that and more on him and his philosophy before I posted. Yeah, so I already knew some of his history. No doubt, his parents and family have disowned him a long time ago.
I'm sure the Hamas Palestinians would welcome him in Gaza to live as he is quite a spokesman.

Not much of a response from you, is it???

Patrick,

Ditto! Ditto!! Not much of a response from you either on this one. Just google in Tom Segev and read all the different websites. His stuff is like sensational National Inquirer news headlines anyway. It makes him a paycheck and that is that! End of subject for me on dicussing him. Hand it to someone else on that one.
Perhaps you have a National Inquirer type newspaper that is printed where you live? Eh?

Interesting reaction from you. Says a whole lot !about you!

Patrick Thomas,

Interesting reaction from you too. Says a whole lot about you also. Gripe if you must but what will be will be. I have more important things in life to do with my time at this moment than quibble here with you at this point any longer about internet sites. That is the crux of where I'm at right now. Perhaps you have nothing better to do with your time right now than sit in front of a computer. Well, I have things that have to get done right now. Hopefully, I've made this simpler for you to understand now.....So like it or not, I'm out of here now!! Get over it!!

Good day to you sir!! I'm courtsying and bowing out.

I am not arguing or disagreeing with you, I just want to point out that if you want to prove your point you should use credible sources. You may or may not know, wikipedia can be edited and altered by anyone. Therefore, anyone who feels like spending the time to type up information can freely do so. There is a lot of good information on wikipedia and a lot of can even be true. But, the bottom line is its not a credible source...so you might want to look at sites that are more credible (and not made for everyone and anyone to edit how they want)
Again, I am not saying its incorrect information, I just notice in the thread you seem to be wanting to proof your point, so if you really want to convince people and show them the truth, make sure you send them to a credible source

Wikipedia is something I keep a close eye on and have been taken by its accuracy on most things.

"Nature magazine recently conducted a head-to-head competition between Wikipedia and Britannica, having experts compare 42 science-related articles. The result was that Wikipedia had about 4 errors per article, while Britannica had about 3. However, a pair of endevouring Wikipedians dug a little deeper and discovered that the Wikipedia articles in the sample were, on average, 2.6 times longer than Britannica's - meaning Wikipedia has an error rate far less than Britannica's."

Slashdot (2005)

The free online resource Wikipedia is about as accurate on science as the Encyclopedia Britannica, a study shows.

The British journal Nature examined a range of scientific entries on both works of reference and found few differences in accuracy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm

I have several other references to it that are more up to date and it is now regarded by almost every authority as being one of the most accurate encyclopaedias on the net.

Europena has just started and hopefully will be even better as we need a reliable and solid source of information to link to.

Thanks for that information. All I want to say is that Wikipedia is a great source of information, and generally accurate, but since Wikipedia is the internet encyclopedia that everyone can edit, so its always good to be able to back up any of the information through another source (one that is considered credible).

Wikipedia is very good for technical subjects where facts are facts and "opinion" is not really an issue.

But wherever there is diversity of opinion, such as in politics, religion, conspiracies, etc wikipedia becomes a battleground in which entire teams of propogandist "editors" (some actually supported by governments) make it their fulltime job to ensure that the wikipedia article reflects their viewpoint.

For issues like that wikipedia is not reliable at all.

Time is over LILLYLADY i'm sorry it seems that Ray is busy so i've to answer you :


First i want to start what islam said about Jewish and Christians :

"Say, we believe in God and that which was revealed unto us, and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob, and the tribes and that which was entrusted unto Moses and Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord We make no distinction between any of them and unto Him we have submitted" (3:84)Koran.

Some non-Muslims either through ignorance or Islam-bashing continue taking the verses of the Quran out of context and its history to justify their false propaganda. In order to gain a proper understanding of many verses in the Quran, it is important to understand and know the historic context of the revelations. So many revelations in the Quran came down to provide guidance to Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and the fellow Muslims based on what they were confronting at that time. The verse 8:12 is one such verse which is misinterpreted. The verse and its follows:

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

However, even during the war, Islam has the highest moral law of war. You don't kill children, women or any one who is not fighting with you.
060.008. God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just.

and regarding Tabari VIII:179 Ishaq:369 and so on. are not Koranic verses we called them "hadeeth's" it means the words, actions, approval or attributes that have been narrated from the Messenger but Among the a haadeeths which are attributed to the Prophet, there are some which are (sound), concerning which there is no doubt that they are the words of the Prophet. There are others which are (weak) and there are doubts that they can be attributed to him now days there is many fabricated stories. so the majority of Muslims are following only the ones are based on the Koran.. but again to understand the Koran and the sound Hadeeths you must know the historic context of them.

cont....

Yes that's true.

And while they work toward that end, guess what ethnic group dominates the worldwide book publishing industry, the newspaper industry, the film industry, the TV networks, etc etc etc.

I'm not telling.

It's true I was gone for days. I have some rather serious health issues and a backlog of things to do, so I can't always be here. What's more I haven't been able to catch up on everything that was written in my absence so I don't know what to answer.

But I will say this on the subject.

The Koran is available online. It is much shorter and easier to read than the Bible or the Talmud. You can read the whole thing in a few days. I have read it all and I don't find anything hateful or racist in it.

Those who want to villify Islam often retranslate passages taken out of context in a way to make them sound as if they are hateful.

I think that's very dishonest and if I see that occurring here I will undertake to demonstrate the perpetrator's bad faith.

The Talmud, on the other hand, which is the principal doctrinal book of Rabbinic Judaism, is indeed a hateful and racist book.
I don't say that lightly and if anyone thinks I'm misjudging the Talmud I will be happy to support that statement with direct quotes from the approved Socccino English edition of the Talmud.

So, to Lilylady,
(since I gather you want to discuss the issue of religious texts directly with me)
I would like to ask you if you disagree with my two statements here:

1. The Koran (the sacred book of Islam) teaches peace and tolerance towards Jews and Christians as "people of the book".

2. The Talmud (and even portions of the Torah) teaches extreme racial/ethnic bias against non Jews, including genocide against people living in land wanted by Jews.

If you think I am mistaken on either point I invite you to debate the issue using exact quotes from the most popular authorized translations.

And regarding the Jewish in Arabia on the time of Prophet Mohamed simply they were having the full protection of Muslims till they betrayed the Muslims and declared war with the infidels of mecca against Islam so what the Muslims excepting them to do with them giving them a flowers...

PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S TREATY WITH JEWS (622 C.E.)
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/treaty-with-Jews.htm

and regarding the Jewish in the 630's AD

the Arabs, were fairly welcoming to the Jews, and many Jews moved from the Christian countries to the Islamic Empire of getting rid of their persecutors at this time.

Later on, in 1492, when Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand decided to throw all of the Jews out of Spain, many thousands of Spanish Jews traveled to the Ottoman Empire, or to North Africa, where they were welcomed and lived in peace. but again betrayed the Muslims by the support of the devil Zionists and they became enemy's and they immigrated by their wells to their dream Land. the Libyan government Example called the Jewish to back if they want but as Libyan Jewish not Zionists..

cnt..

sorry Ray I answerd on your behalf ..cuz Liyland was angry of it...and sorry to know that you have serious health issues hope you're ok now.

as you said that what Islam called Jews and Christians " people of the book" not as the Zionists said the Islam called them Infidels..

Actuly I wrote in Gaza Thread abut The Talmud and the Zionists were very angry of me..
The Talmud its terrible and they know too but the Zionism disease killed their hearts and mind..

About Muslims and Jews living together in peace in Palestine prior to the Zionist invasion.

I have a very interesting book written in the late 40s while Palestine was still under the British mandate.

It has pictures of all the beautiful Arab cities, that existed at that time, and it has pictures of Jews living in peace and prosperity alongside Arabs.

In the text, it says that many times they weren't even aware of each other's ethnicity.

Neither Arabs nor Jews were fanatical in those days. Religion wasn't that important to their way of life.

It was European zionism that radicalized Jews with colonialist aspirations and convinced them that somehow Palestine was theirs and needed to be retaken from the Palestinians.

This is interesting, I have seen references to this...

Don't apologize, I'm thankful you answered for me as I wasn't here to do so.

As for my health, it's an ongoing thing that I just have to live with.
I don't want to go into details.
But I need the prayers of anyone who believes that God loves people without regard to their bloodline.



Yes, I know.
I was very impressed with the meekness and tolerance of the Koran.

I think Christianity and Islam are (doctrinally) very similar in many ways. However, "religion" (as opposed to faith) always distorts and perverts the original doctrines with self-righteousness and bigotry.

The real battle is not between religions per se, but between the sincere humble believers and the insincere proud religionists.