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Its amazing to me...how come Americans gladly accept this obviously. I thought you were as freedom focus as I am as a Dane. Ive been in the US many times and I have seen a tremendous advancements towards becoming a police state...and it seems like the majority accepts this...how is this possible?

Check this out folks:
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?oid=c6745aa15ed5c6be&rurl=video.yahoo.com&fr=yvmtf

Are you willing to give up freedom for security - which by the way they (government) can never promise. Think about what one of your great presidents said.

~DJ

Genuine freedom has always been an illusion, and always will be.

Within any civilization laws have always existed controlling what people may or may not do.

Fascism is only as bad as the people who are dictating the laws.

If "we the people" dictate the laws, they will still exist.

In fact, if the MAJORITY RULED, like it's supposed to be in a genuinely democracy then a lot of so-called freedoms that minorities now have would be revoked.

The majority hasn't ruled in America for a very long time.

I’m not convinced that this is necessarily a bad idea either.

A true democracy would be nothing other than a state where the majority were the dictators.

That still wouldn't spell freedom for the minorities.

Human societies will ALWAYS be trade-offs.

There's no such thing as a genuinely free society.

There never has been, and never will be.

Another foriegner is wanting to be a political expert. I wonder if you aer as equally involved in your own country's politics. When was the last time you wrote your own local paper? Or your congressman?
Before you doen the states , did you think about all the new inventions in the last 100 years? 99% from the United States.
How many inventions from Denmark? 0 , you say?

By the way , you are ranting on the internet. Invented by an American , Algore .

LifeisGreat, I checked out the site, and here's my feedback.

We as Americans have long known that there was and is no particular law requiring the government to collect income tax. Matter of fact, there was a movement a few years ago, called the "sons of the patriots", that challenged this practice in the supreme court. They failed, as would any others, because some time ago one of our presidents declared that it was neccessary to collect income tax to continue to run this country. That practice has become a neccessity for the operation of this country, as for many countries worldwide. To stand and say that America can exist as a country without funding, be it income tax or whatever, is a foolish dream. We do enjoy many freedoms here, and yes, I can see where you may get the idea of government taking over. We as a people had to do something when attacked by terrorists. That act will change America, it will make us harder, more isolated. But thats how it has to be. As for the chip, they will end my life and my children's lives before implanting any microchip into us. If America falls from it's freedom based past, then not only will our citizens suffer an incredible loss, so shall the world.

What exactly would you have us do? Open our borders knowing that the enemy can and will stroll over to destroy us? Embrace our death, in the name of liberty? I think not. Those folks over there will be glad to see each of us, Men, women, and Children, slaughtered. I do not return thier hatred, yet I will stand in defense of my homeland.

If you ever really want to know what our freedoms are worth to us, just ask a veteran who has been to other countries and fought for thier freedoms as well as ours.

No taxation without representation was what this country was founded on. This is what seperated us from the British.

What do you expect in this day and age?

I expect to find a woman with no baggage.



Okay,
okay,
I was only halucinating.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled political discussions.

Abra , you and Cat feel free to highjack this thread.



Baggage discussions are WAY more interesting.

It always amazes me how many people outside the US know SOooo much about it.

Well said Joe

Make no mistake...this is Corporate America.

Corporations run this country, profit is our religion,

and money is the highest power here.

It's been this way for some time,

and isn't changing in the forseeable future.



Even so...I like it here,

and have no plans to leave.

~~~

Yep, I agree with Ocee.

It's all about worshiping money

But that's not unique to the U.S.A.

That's human nature.

It's either money or power.

What's the difference really?

It will never be about humanity.

~~~

Gravedigger...BTW thanks for the title..."foreign political expert" ...I'll immediately have that added to my business card ...no Im just a guy who tries to use his little brain...or at least of whats left of it :)

~DJ

Ok, guys guess I need to clarify certain things here

First I wanna say I dont care as much about tax laws or not...of course you need taxes to run a country. Tax laws is not what I see is limiting freedom. Its not that I think about. It the gradual change which people obviously dont see.

Secondly, yes Im a foreigner...and if I may ask...how do you know I dont contact those politicians here in Denmark. I actually get into the debates...I even write the news stations. Im even a member of a party and take active part in it. The so called 'anti-terror' laws they trying to put in place here too - just because of what happend in your country. I know a lot about danish politics as well as world politics. We as danes will not accept this limits on our freedom. Even if it should cost some lives...but again we have a foreign policy which doesnt try to force others to believe like us danes

Gravedigger...I start to understand why so many americans accept these so called 'anti-terror' laws. You guys believe you will have freedom and safety because of these laws. BTW...obviously you dont know much about world politics else you would know we dont have a congressional system :) ...we vote directly on each individual politician! Our government can maximum sit for 4 years but government can be force to have an election earlier if the parliament wants it. I have voted every single time except for one time and that was when I was in the US travelling. I had totaly forgotten about it else I would have voted by letter.
I dont know if you vote or not but I can tell you this. If you dont vote you dont have any right to complain...simply cause you didnt make an effort to make a change in government!!!
Not voting is the same as accepting what the government is doing.

Gravedigger: "Before you doen the states , did you think about all the new inventions in the last 100 years? 99% from the United States. How many inventions from Denmark? 0 , you say?"
Microsoft thought obviously we invented something good :) ...they bought an extremely well driven danish company here and we are the leading windmill producer of the world...so please spare me for you "america is so good" mentality. Yes a lot of things is great in America...BUT it doesnt mean that other countries are not making great inventions :) ...I would like to see the reference for your 1%

"Niels Bohr - Niels Bohr is often referred to as the second most important scientist of the 20th century after Albert Einstein. His work in physics developed greatly the knowledge we have on atomic structure and quantum mechanics."
He was a Dane! Yes we can be blamed for the effect of this inventions to a certain extend

"Hans Christian Ørsted
The discoverer of electromagnetism is one of the most influential people in Danish culture and society."
He was a Dane!

"Søren Kierkegaard
Danish philosopher and poet and one of the founding fathers of existentialism."
He was a Dane!

Gravedigger...some of our great scientists lived long before America even existed :) Just for your information ;) ...go back to your history books and try to go beyond you own country's history if you want to get a better picture of what has happend up through time... ...dont be ignorant...

Anyway, lets take the example of the UK...they have very strict laws and have camera surveilance everywhere. They have had those for years. Every public place this. Then I have one question...so did this prevent any terror in London?
These cameras were even not just regular cameras that record what is going on...these are intelligent cameras who actually can recoqnize criminals simply by them walking by. Again...I ask the question did it help prevent anything? It only helped identify who did this...but what does it matter...they blew themselves up anyway...
The only sane thing to do is to encourage people to be more aware of suspicious things going on around you...then report it to the authorities and let the court system deal with it and then let the police intervene if the laws permit this. Dont let the police avoid the court system as it seems like what is happening over there.

Isnt this typical some Americans get so defensive when foreigners point out a problem. Gravedigger, I wouldnt be suprise if you are a repulican who supports Bush. At least its a typical reactions from many Bush supporters Ive talked to.
BTW...we Danes are even down in Iraq supporting the US troops. Im not against America at all. I love travelling there and I have family on the east and west coast. When that is said...Im still amazed by the majority of Americans accepting these laws.
You country was build on freedom and now gradually its taken away from you.

I do remember a statement of one of your great presidents, Thomas Jefferson it sounds like this:
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

What was the purpose of the terrorists...to ruin your freedom basically. To make you suffer...have they succeded to some extend by now? Will it continue to becoming worse? Are laws being put in place to control you as an individual even more? Gradually freedom is taken away and because it has happend gradually you dont realize how far you have gone until it will be too late. Do you as an American feel safe travelling all over the world? Or do you choose your destination carefully today before leaving?

As some of you might remember a danish newspaper printed some 'cartoons' of Muhammed which made the middle east go crazy. We used our freedom of speach and I will _always_ defend that no matter what. I can give you more info on this if you like but for now Im just gonna use it as an example of that freedom sometimes cost something. Im willing to pay the price simply because its my fundamental belief that I or anybody has the right to say what they want.

Im not against muslims or any other religion...just because I dont like the Muslim beliefs system which allows to use terror basically. I do know many great muslims who also defend the freedom of speech.

Joe
"What exactly would you have us do? Open our borders knowing that the enemy can and will stroll over to destroy us? Embrace our death, in the name of liberty?"
Well, how come you think these people in the first place wanted to destroy you guys. Could it be some of the foreign policies that your government has tried to force on others.
When has the use of force ever created more democracy? Just asking? Can you force somebody to give you freedom?
Lets just take it down to the marriage level...are you satisfied if you are being force to love somebody? Or do you prefer to be in a marriage because you love this person and actually also have the choice to leave if you want to? Or maybe you belongs to those type who likes to be handcuffed in bed

"Those folks over there will be glad to see each of us, Men, women, and Children, slaughtered. I do not return thier hatred, yet I will stand in defense of my homeland."
yes, they might do want to kill all of you...Im not saying you shouldnt do anything to protect your country just like we protect our country. But when laws are put in place which allows for government to surveil anybody without first having to get a court order...then you are on dangerous grounds. Thats how the former Iraq government started...just go look in history to see what these type of government ended up.
Again this reminds me about another Jefferson statement:
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."

Cat:
"What do you expect in this day and age?"
Hope you dont just sit down and look as things passing by...have kind of already given up?...thats the worst case....then there is no hope. Hopefully you make your voice heard by voting...

Ocee, its actually very good to hear at least one person Ocee who actually seems to have some insight to whats going on. I agree with your reasoning in parts to what are causing the situation to become like this in America.
Well I do know there is other Americans who also try to make difference...I have several very good american friends who actually tries to fight the tendency in US government limiting their freedom. They make their voice heard in many different ways. Through organisations and/or through writing their congressman, etc.
The importance is trying to fight it...but always remember it can only be fought by you using the rules of democracy. No force will ever change anything in the long run.

Abracadabra...good to hear at least you agree with Ocee...smile.

Wow...this became much longer than expected...too much thinking for my part...now I want to have sex...LOL...ups, no lady is here, so no passionate love making :( ...where are you? - dont hide.
Im a great foreign political expert...that must be a huge turn on for you as a lady

PS!
"If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.", Thomas Jefferson

Dont see that at all.WhAT I do see is we had step up our security since 9-11.Our guard was down then and thousands of lives were taken.By unselfish,unknowing and its the ignorance that makes them so deadly.We in America will do what it takesto protect what is near and dear to us.One thing that must be said is generations have fought to the death for the freedom we have here.And if thats what it takes more lives will be given,for it is given for love of this country.Yet it seems to other countries that we are becoming a police nation.No its not that,we just love and hold dear this great land we live in,and will protect it at all cost.

Quote-"Ive been in the US many times and I have seen a tremendous advancements towards becoming a police state...and it seems like the majority accepts this...how is this possible?"


How can you consider yourself a student of history and politics and not know this?

For fucks sake...

Most days all I'm concerned with is making a buck,

and scratching my ass and I know this.


Lack of strife breeds apathy.