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In reply to all of these posts. My son was in the paras and also in Iraq. He and many of his 'brothers' left to join the security services out there. He completed many tours in different areas and seemed to be safe enough. Many people should realise that if these experienced ex-service men were not there then our enlisted soldiers would be deployed (or those of other forces out there). Unfortunately my son lost his life in Iraq in March. At his funeral there was a wonderful turnout of paras and ex-paras and also a wonderful honour of old paras (some of a super old age!) who provided the para flag to drape his coffin. What really disgusts me is that the Americans sent me Iraqi Freedom medals for his bravery. An American Brigadier General also sent me a personal letter of condolence which I have framed to keep for his sons. The British Government do not acknowledge that these men are losing their lives at an alarming rate and when they do they are 'non-persons'. Whilst I waited at the airport I was told to watch carefully and I might see a glimpse of him being brought from the plane in a plain steel box! It was a terribly sad and hidden return. He and many others went out there only to have a chance of being able to buy a house for them and their families due to the fact that the wages of the British forces are so poor and they often end up with spouses in areas that have crazy house prices way out of their reach. When he was in Iraq with the paras they used to do nightly raids on the Americans to 'pinch' decent supplies ie food and boots and flak gear etc. On one occasion they were deployed in Baghdad and they were scranning when an American came in. He asked what they were eating. They said it was their dinner and he asked when they got their other food! They said this was their food and he replied "Gee man, how do you lot live on that stuff?" When they were doing their 'raid's' they thought it was fun and a laugh. It wasn't until my son was working out there with securtiy that he realised the quality of the food supplies that the Americans had in comparison with our soldiers. I was in the Navy and was in married quarters during the Falklands and we shouldn't have been there either. That should have been sorted out so quickly with one or two quiet warnings but that would not have got Maggie back in so quickly on the backs of the many dead men who died in bloody cold waters far away from home. But regardless of that the men who go to any of these places forces or not should be treated with the utmost respect and be honoured correctly. The idiots on the streets committing crime who have never worked and couldn't give a sh*t about real honour and loyalty get more help from all of our caring services. Because lets face it they need so much more help to re-intergrate into our society! MMMM! yes. says it all.

Gallowgae-first and foremost,may i offer my condolences on the loss of your son-a brave man indeed.

My son,who was a Greenjacket,had previously seen service as a Royal Marine and had been operational with the paras on a number of occassions-both as RGJ and Marine-and had many friends within their batallions.

I quite endorse your point of ex servicemen joining security firms to secure their families those assets which normally take a lifetime to achieve-indeed,I,personally know many current servicemen considering the option to secure their own home for themselves and their families.

During the long period i spent at Selley Oak hospital,in Brum,i got to know many lads from all different sections of the Armed Forces-but one particular instance rather affected me.

There was a lad(only 21)from the Staffordshire Regiment who had lost both legs,the use of his arms and suffered brain damage(had quite a coverage on tv)-but what the media missed(or didn't want to know?)-was the 'permanent' expressions on the faces of his wife and his mother-every picture tells a story-and this was powerful!-as was when his platoon mates came to see him(on their R&R)-can u imagine a group of the fittest men you've ever seen in your life walking out of a hospital ward almost reduced to tears-yes,because i've seen it!

Equally so,in my lads own batallion-one of the very seriously injured was a lad of 18-who had mates from the private security services come to see him-I spoke to a couple of these lads myself-an they spoke as if they had never left the Army-the Camerardery between these men is unbelievable and beyond the comprehension of any civilan.

Finally,on a point of importance-i would like to remind all those critics of this thread-If it weren't for our lads fighting and dying in Northern Ireland years ago-there would have been numerous more IRA cells here in the UK and a LOT more civilian casualities-this statement in no way or form endorses any support from myself for the current conflict in the middle east which i,personally,believe has been manipulated for economic and political reasons!.

This current conflict is needessly taking our lads lives-ALL FOR THE WRONG REASONS!-for Gods sake-bring em home!.

Furthermore-Another point you people may be interested in?-When a Politician visits Selly Oak(part of their PR excercises)-did you know that the ward has to void of any military equipment-even attire!-and more importantly-They NEVER are seen with those who are the worst injured-that is NO accident-Wonder why?-could it be conscience!!!!.

If the Offenders of ABH or GBH in this country think they are dab hands at fighting-Fine!-give em 6 months in iraq or afghanistan-they'd wet their pants!!!.

C'mon you lot!-I aint gonna let this thread die-cos our wonderous government has guaranteed our lads at least another 10 years in afghanistan!-Wotcha Gonna Do About It?.

there is damn all we can do about our government, they certainly dont listen to what we the people want or say. good for you for standing up and speaking out about how you feel, not everyone as the guts to do that!

has the guts not as...it is early still and now i cant spell!

I have my sons boys with me at the moment they are 3 and 5 years old. If my son had been a lazy dole fiddler the boys would have had their father all the time instead of one month out four (the three being out in iraq). Well apart from the 'poor' people who can't (or wont) get a job and say they are on disability...but they can spend a hell of a lot time propping up the bar in the local pub! This is an abuse of people who really are disabled! Lads who join up don't necessarily think about going to war..but if it comes up then so be it. The three year old will never remember his dad except from photographs and the five year old goes quiet when his daddy is mentioned and shuts himself off. All he saays is that his daddy is in the clouds watching to make sure he is good and that he is safe. When the stars come out that is daddy saying good night sleep tight. Its been six months since my son died and if I live to be eighty there isn't a moment that I don't think of him. They say life is a bitch and then you die....unfortunately the b....ards and lazy waster that seem to live the longest! Much love to you all. Be safe ...you don't know what may happen tomorrow!

so sorry to hear about all what you have had to go through. it is so true, it is the rubbish in this world that thrive and the good, that suffer. wishing you much luck for the furure!

future...it is late...cant type properly!

Well,been another bad period-More of our lads dead for no good purpose!-lets not forget the media dont report those who are shipped back to the uk badly injured(wonder if that info is governed or not?).

As stated recently by late US commander in chief-"It's a war we cannot win"-so why is the Politicians so intent on continuing it?-Dick Cheyney is still making a massive profit,Blair has gone quiet(wonder why?),Bush hasn't got a clue whats going on?-but families in the US and UK (plus elsewhere)still get that fatal knock on the door!.

The problem is not in the future-its here now!-those men/women in our armed forces who have 'copped it' in service look toward us(the general public) for some form of recognition of their duty-I mean-'We did vote in the Govt that sent em out there-didn't we?'-Whether you agree politically or not-they served on behalf of the UK-and that is YOU!-you may require their services one day in the future-so people,lets show a bit of respect for those injured now eh????.

norther ierland it was hard

Too Right Bruv-Remember Leeson Street?.

Hang on Bruv-My Apologies-Leeson Stret was only one of many engagements-my apologies again.

M'lud - Whilst I see all the points in your original Judicial commentary, I would say nobody wants to forget Northern Ireland nor should they, but even Paisley and other Protestants drew the line and negotiated finally -

SO as we are in the Here and Now lets consider the news today we see yet another 2 para soldier died in Afghanistan, as the result of *cowards bomb* warfare.

He has been named which must be even more of a problem for his gieving family which the media love to cause and we shold NOT even be there.

I say Bollocks to the American Cowboy Gung ho's. -
The trigger happy bastards ( and I speak from personal experience ) have not only shot at their own but our troops too on the flimsiest of *excuses* ( NOT REASONS) even when we were Intentifiable by normal visual methods and IFF.

The Americans and the Pentagon have been looking for trouble in the middle east for years on all theatres and have openly supported continous Israeli brutaility at the far end of the Med so they shoudl sort their Vietnam Mk2 out on their own if they want that OIL and Heroin business.

That is what it's all about, just like it is with the Ruskies trying to nick the Gas/Fuel line in Georgia for themselves by being duplicitous


Mike @ Broadstairs

God man I served in Ireland an still the same old whinges go on. ok sorry for your loss, but why did he join in the first place, to see the world, gained a career and have abooze up. well quite frankly its not all fun and games, your trained to KILL! and that means putting your life on the line. You take the risk along with the rest of the squaddies. The goverment sends you too where your needed at a specific time, and like any other job, your paid to carry out aspecific task, and that may include killing women,children and whatever else stands in your way. So dont assume all soilder are nice little angels. And if he was half the man like the ones I served with, he would have expected it.

WHAT??????-Who did you serve with-THE FOREIGN LEGION!!!!!

Persistent Empty Barrels.

Hello Beenabout, I've beenaround...

This thread is about British sevicemen dying in Iraq/Afganistan..Not about what happened on the streets of the North of Ireland..You brought the subject up not me..But there was not a lot difference in tactics between the P.I.R.A and GCHQ...

Check these links...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2003/apr/17/guardianobituaries.northernireland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Research_Unit

http://www.serve.com/~pfc/fru/fru12022k1a.html

http://www.birw.org/Stakeknife.html

Anybody who wants to understand modern warfare....

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27/054.html


Beenabout

no hard feelings

None Taken-Fair Do's Phoenix-threads tend to wander once in a while.

Beers on me