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alan dont get me started on judges, old men in dresses who send pensioners to prison, because they cant pay their council tax and allow rapists to walk free, this country needs sorting now and let national service, come high on the agenda!

Good Question ben?-but i think inadverdently Mantho & Coopy have hit the nail on the head between them!.

I'm picking up vibes of "We shouldn't be forced to do anything we dont want to" and "Well,its not for everybody is it?".

OK-so lets go back to basics?-Unfortunately we live in a society today that compliments itself on the 'Nanny' basis-in other words-if you dont want to take responsibility for yourself or undertake any duties that may reasonably be expected of you-Not to Worry-we'll do it for you!!!.

Yes-Duties and Responsibilities-something that used to be at the heart of community living-It starts in the family home then extends to school and eventually with your own family or yourself as an adult.The degree of Duties and Responsibilities one undertakes dictates the standard of person you are or will become-not to mention,as a parent,that what you will pass on to your children.

Is it right that the view should be taken "Let someone else do it?" or "No way-am i doing that!"-yet if the Duty or Responsibility is to ones own benefit-you'll get trampled in the rush!-thats the damage the 'Nanny' state has done to our society!.

National Service was seen as a Duty and Responsibility-didnt have to be liked?-just performed-and regarding infantry service?-that is only one part of the armed forces-there are dozens of alternatives-if one chooses infantry and decides its not for them then they wont finish training-probably transferred to an alternative unit.

Discipline-what is wrong with that?-I,personally had the cane a few times at school-plus numerous clips around the earhole!-Big Deal!-hasnt exactly scarred me for life!-I done wrong-I got caught-I got punished-thats life!-Whats the remedy today?-I wont even go into it?????.

are you living in cloud cuckoo land or what? the British army cant even adequately provide for the cannon fodder it already has and resignations are at an all time high - soldiers are dying in combat because they are inadequately equipped, if they lose kit in combat they have to pay for the cost of replacements themselves - veterans have to fight through the courts to get the compensation they are entitled to and current soldiers have to pay for their own private insurance.........

if this gvmt introduce conscription it will be for one reason alone and that would be simply to provide cheap cannon fodder

just last year in Iraq, there was a troop of soldiers gunned down by insurgents and the cry from their commander afterwards was that this would not have happened if they had been better equipped......


resignations soar and at the same time the chiefs of staff are calling for more infantry - coincidence? I dont think so................

people, dont let this talk of a bit of discipline for the youth sway you into thinking that the army is the only solution - let them put that money into the education system instead - let them put the money into improving the lot of the disadvantaged in the inner cities and then we may see a lessening of the problems faced - give the youngsters a hope for the future by way of promise of work or the ability to see a way out of the inner city ghettos and options other than a life on benefits - give them hope!

but please dont send them off as ill equipped infantry to be gunned down as toys of the megalomanical rulers that start these wars in the interests of financial gain.

I was wondering how reasonably "Educated" People could propose Slavery to the State as as a Citizen's "Responsibility,after Slavery had been abolished by Queen Victoria as one of her first Acts after becoming the Queen.

The British Emancipation Act was adapted in 1833 to abolish slavery in the British Empire and Canada.
Rights are Inherent in People,they are NOT "GIVEN" by Government,so the claim that Rights entail "Responsibilities "toward the State is a Bunch of Hogwash!
Duties and Responsibilities,in Exchange of ones OWN RIGHTS,what a Fecking Joke

Let's hope they will feel the Whip on their Own Backs one of these days!!!!!!!

Hi Trish!!

What past generation do you mean beenabout?.

The Mods and Rockers of the Sixties who fought a every chance they could with knivies....

The Teddy boys of Crouch End in the late fifties. Who I hasten to add sewed razor blades into the lapels of their jackets...

The football hooligans of the 70's/80's..

Which generation of youth are you talking about?

But to introduce nat service..wouldn't change a thing..

Parents taking control of their kids and educating them (both parents and kids) then yes, Nat.Service non staarter..Most of the street crime in Blighty today is carried out with kids to young for Nat. Service

Oh Conrad my friend.

Rights are inherent by and in Law-Every citizen has the Duty and Responsibility to abide by the Law-The Law is at the heart of every community-so,in the event of National Service ever being reintroduced-it becomes a Duty and Responsibility.

Really must treat you to a Full set of Harveys one day?-but,before that,might be best to get you started on-"Alice in Wonderland!".

Fair opinion there Poenix?-I use the term 'past generations' loosely-but do agree that Parenting has become an issue for concern?-what would you propose as an alternative then?.

This is outdated and simplistic thinking from another
era. The 'problems of today's youth' is a phrase that
has been banded about for decades, probably even
when National Service was in full swing.
Today's problems need today's solutions. Harping
back to a forgotten era will only cloud the issue,
passing the buck onto our Armed Forces is not the
answer.
Apart from that, the MOD have stated many
times, they do not want the professionalism of our
Armed Forces to be diluted by acting as surrogate
parents.
From what I can see out on the streets, its some
of the parents whose behavioral traits could be
called into question.

Very Constructive Opinion-thank you Bodeleing.

But,on a general basis-do you still think it ought to be reintroduced?.

Yes...for some of the parents!!!

HA HA!-BRILLIANT(luv it)!!!!!!-an a "BRAVOOOOOO!"!

Hiya Conrad

Your analogy with slavery is pretty apt - have you ever heard of sink estates Conrad? they are pretty desperate places and are the seat of most of the problems currently manifesting themselves in the form of youth violence - the term 'sink' estate disgustingly derives from what is left quite literally, at the bottom of the sink when the plug is pulled and the washing up done, you know, all the gunk and detritus - well thats what these kids have to live with and invariably also have to face the fact that its pretty unlikely they'll ever escape it either - this is the ultimate let down of a society which can spend millions on armaments yet they say they cant do anything about these young people - they make me bloody puke! but even worse are the people who actually blame these kids for their plight - think about it, what the hell chance do any of them have or have they had to do anything about their lot - IT IS NOT THEIR FAULTS! What they are doing is wrong yes but were they educated in any other way - they didnt get the chance to go to the best schools and believe me, as soon as they do start school they are streamed for the simple reason that the schools are so undersatffed , they can only concentrate on excellence for the select few - yes, it does go on, even in inner city schools they have one or two who excell every year - the rest are tolerated with many leaving school illiterate - we dont see pupils from private educational institutions leaving there illiterate do we? so whats the difference - money talks maybe.

Theres no work for these people so the economy is worse than dire, theres consequently no leisure facilities and the shops dont stock anything like the stuff they see advertised on the tv - the schools have a desperate fight on their hands to keep staff and pupil absenteeism is a joke.................. so what exactly do these people have to look forward to - somebody is now saying, yeah, escape from the sink estates is possible - go and be cannon fodder for your country instead -

I may have a good education now but it has cost me dearly - I was a kid from a council estate but that was when there was plenty of work for everybody, you know, the days before they sent all our industry off to China and before they privatised much of the industry too - these kids that people are saying should be sent off as cannon fodder are the victims of sucessive governments letting them down - and now they have to go and face death and destruction in foreign lands to show fealty to a government which has done diddly squat for then - some people have got their heads on backwards if you ask me........

social housing itself was wrested from the hands of unscrupulous mill owners who used to see whole families out on the streets for so much as looking at the foreman the wrong way - do we want a return to those days cos its what will happen if you send all the youth off to face the afghani or iraqui firing squads - as I said earlier, they cant even equip the infantry they have alread got adequately...

It would sure solve the problem for the gvmt if they all went off and got shot - it would make bloody certain that there would be no young men left when they then decided to introduce further arcane laws and depravations - domestic gas prices have gone up by 50% already this year and I dont think people are going to stand for much more - old people are already having to choose between heating or food , and have been for some time (I worked at the CAB for a few yrs on social policy issues) but if we send all those young lads off to their phoney wars, who is going to be there for us - they have already disarmed us and now they are going for the disempowerment angle too - thats right send your sons to - so you can feel good

Theres lots of stuff on google about how they could stop the two big wars of the moment within a very short time - anybody with half a brain knows that they depend on the black market to keep the economy alive - the blackmarket in drugs brings in lots of revenue for the gvmts and the pharmaceutical companies dont do too badly out of their rehab pills either.........

theres lots more on the history of inner cities to be said too - the numbers of people there grew right alongside the growth of british industry - they sold off the industies and now they are selling out the people - please dont fall for it...........

Lots of love,

Trish

Trish,my good lady-Methinks you have a heart of Gold-and I commend you for it.

Have you ever spoken to these lads(Able&Injured)who have served in the 'active' zones?-no disrespect to you at all but they dont see it as any 'cause?'-they've just been ordered to do a job-and they will do it-to the best of their ability!-The rights/wrongs of the cause is for us civvies to take our govt to task on?-but unfortunately our squaddies get the backlash of the politics-and they DONT understand it-neither do they deserve it!.

All they've done is do their Duty(sorry conrad!)-These lads come from ALL walks of life-an share a camerardy that we civvies find hard to understand-some,when not too badly injured,have returned to the active zone,after recovery,WHY?-because their mates are out there!.

Regarding justification of the cause-I couldnt agree with you more!-tis a waste of bloody life which leaves blood on the Politicians-hardly in defence of the realm is it?-may i suggest you look on the "Help For Heroes" website-it is purely intended for the injured of this unnecessary conflict-but not politically involved-all they want is a bit of understanding to have been 'unlucky'(squaddie term) in the service of their country-i dont think thats too much to ask of anyone-without criticism-do you?.

Im not talking about the lads who are there already, they are there from choice - the thread is about conscription remember do you really think we are so stupid that we wont see through your mixed points of reference...........

and please dont patronise me with the heart of gold stuff - my research is thoroughly done and to a high standard at that thank you very much - this is education, not heart ............

Hmmm-am quite sad you take that point of view?-very surprised at your indifference?-obviously your answer to-'Re-introduction of National Service'-is NO-fair enough!

What was the point to all of the rest of your spiel then?.

You asked for opinions - or did you mean you wanted only people who would agree with you you mentioned behavioural traits, as I did psychology on my recent degree, behavioural traits interest me very much....

perhaps, in future, if you only want replies to your threads which affirm your own opinions, you should maybe state this at the outset..............

the point of my 'spiel' is to counterbalance some of the rubbish I have read on this thread.............

Quite!-Just an Opinion-thats all that was required?

Your attempt at being 'Peoples Champion' is duly noted!

Good luck with the rest of your 'Research'-you may find something factual?.

as is your supercilious self agrandisement, my dear man..........