Connecting Singles^® UK Forums 100% Free Online Dating

"God Bless Ya Luv!"

You've a lot to learn about Army Life?-Perhaps,Other Things In Life As Well?.

All the very Best to ya!

OK-Can we get back to the basic Question again Please?

What newspapers/tabloids do you read?

nice to read some debate,makes a change from word association game series,975

of course we can - Would you support the re-introduction of national service, right?

well, no I would not - and here are further reasons for my stance in this matter;

First off, we dont have the megalomaniac, Hitler, threatening to march through Europe at the moment as we did the last time conscription was enacted. The only threats we do have are relative to the shit hitting the fan in the fight for supremacy over oil supplies.

Any parent or person who has taken care of children must be able to spot the obvious here, that is, that these grown men never seem to have grasped the ethic of 'sharing' - yes, it sure does take a special kind of person to become a leader of a nation - they have to have failed the sharing test at nursery school/kindergarten.

The other lesson they didnt quite seem to assimilate from their pre school experiences seems to be 'how to let an argument drop' - these ruler type personalities simply go to bigger and better armaments - it really makes me wonder, being as the above mentioned are such simple basics in lifes lessons, or, if not, there may be something else driving their apparent dumbness such as, maybe, possibly, perhaps its.................................... MONEY........

When this does bubble over between Russia (China) and Europe (America), they wont be able to do the big old fashioned thing of infantry against infantry cos some of the other megalomaniacs also now have control of their own nuclear arsenals so they will be able to simply go for all out mutually assured destruction - and they wont be needing infantry for that one so in the meanwhile, they do need cannon fodder for the 'little' wars they have going on as a prelude.

If any of you think that any of these people hold human life as sacred, or that they have the parental concerns for your children's safety that 'normal' people do, if you think their hearts break they same way that yours do then think again, soldiers to these people are expendable - especially when they think they might use social unrest to foster the cause of conscription...............

- heres a list http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/cards/alphabet.html of some of the companies and worlds richest people who have got where they are because your children and loved ones believed they were laying down their lives for king and country - tosh, they were laying down their lives because politicians, and the people that buy them (yes, they do buy them with all sorts of kick backs, not to forget their shares in many of the companies) know full well that war is very profitable.

Very Good Trish(an i mean that!)-I understand your answer and why?-but could i be forgiven for asking-"Are you Advocating for World Disarmament?" or for "Constitutional Reform" of the UK;s Political system?.

The latter is certainly the likeliest to attain-but,in all honesty,is it practical to believe that ANY Government whatsoever can be devoid of those human traits being:Corruption,Greed,Insincereity etc?-it is even rife in the infrastructure of Religous Institutions!.

Perhaps,we can share a common principle that since Oliver Cromwell led the people of England to defeat such injustices-and install a 'Rump' Parliament-which,even then,proved to have its inadequacies-the whole system of government since has been like a 'Rubber Ball'-introducing and reintroducing legislation to suit their ambitions-whatever the motive?.

Its nothing to do with world disarmament or even constitutional reform, not on the surface anyway. Britain has, on the face of things, a Constitutional Monarchy, thats what they would have us believe at least and likewise, the US has it own peculiar form of Democracy unfortunately, both are falacies. They dont actually need to be reformed to any extent other than to display the merits of their respective claims.

What we have in their stead is a peculiar mixture between Gerontocracy and Plutocracy - which country we reside in hardly really matters any more as we are all at the behest of the earlier mentioned
pre schoolers who never learned to share - their backers and puppet masters, the heads of rich families who own the banks and oil companies, who got rich from the railroads and steel industry and consequently, off the backs of the 'expendable' work forces in both countries - are you surprised that i didnt advocate Communism or at least, Socialism haha I bet its what you expected - nope, we simply need a bit of honesty and respect for the 'small' people without whom, none of their wealth would be possible......

Last yr, I forget which periodical it was in but it was reported that there are now so many millionaires that they dont bother to count them anymore but they happily reported 980 billionaires - and all this is going on while the pensioners who fought their wars and who laboured and toiled to build their riches have the dilemma every year of whether to eat or to have a bit of heating - hardly seems fair does it...............

Im merely suggesting that these disgustingly rich people should perhaps have their greed capped at a few millions each so that the rest of us may be in with a chance of seeing something other than the ghettos for the rest of our lives. That way, trade could continue as it is but instead of obscene amounts of riches sitting in bank vaults, (actually, its just on computers nowadays) some of it could actually be being used to regenerate various economies and to provide a higher standard of living for the workers, without whom, they would have no riches in the first place.


As for your alusions to Cromwell, we dont need to purge parliament half so much as we need to purge their greedy puppetmasters....... nothing much has really changed there haha...... and it was never destined to do so either while both sides of the furore wore clothes which were cut from the same cloth - so to speak.


Cromwell was hated by the Irish who accused him of genocide - I am of Irish descent..............

Yep!-I agree-todays world is money in-common sense out!-Communisn?-well,as demonstrated by George Orwell(Animal farm)-'some are more equal than others'-eh?.

My mate Cromwell?-What a Lad!!!-Tis my own personal opinion that he was one of Englands Greatest-hardly guilty of genocide because there is no records of him ordering any women and children be put to death-in fact-he was originally opposed to putting Charles 1st to death!-but PLEASE----lets not get into a History Debate!!!.

You are obviously very proud of your Irish descent-so you should be-I am also very proud of my own descent-its English.

People who have faced struggles are often left not so much proud, rather overawed, at the overcoming of them - and the Irish peoples have sure had more than their fair share.

I guess its the oft heard cry nowadays, I was born in England so I guess I must be English too - though I dont really think theres much to seperate any of us but for the accidents or possibly, good fortune of birth...........

I actually named one of my dogs Cromwell, many moons ago - he was a big soft Rotwieler who seemed to adopt me, so I let him stay and the name suited him so much it stuck - he was my lord protector for sure - but I never did much care for parliamentarians.......... or royalists either for that matter........

but now that the unwashed masses have got their hands on a bit of education too we may actually see some changes of lasting benefit.


and Im still totally against conscription too by the way

Well,Speaking as a product of the "Unwashed Masses"-I did kind of get the impression that you personally was against 'The reintroduction of National Service'(not to worry-you wont get called up!)-Lovely to hear about the Rottweiler-what a Tribute!.


Personally,I still think that a 3 yr stint in the armed forces is not a bad thing at all?-the armed forces is certainly NOT to be used as a dumping ground for societys bad boys(&girls)-more of a platform to realise a few things about yourself-and life as well?.

In the words of the Duke of Wellington-"Where would Society be without my Boys?"(sorry Trish!).

Anyway,I fear this thread is coming to an end-and i thank ALL contributors-especially Trish-whom,although volatile-has presented some thought provoking issues?-lets wait and see what the future has to offer?????.

You mistake my passion for the issues closest to my heart for volatility - yes, Im very passionate for the lot of my fellow man, yes, I totally hate to see people having the wool pulled over their eyes and yes, I have spent many years observing and uncovering social issues and actually working to put them right.

There are many more ways than a "stint in the armed forces" for youngsters to achieve the aim of 'self realisation'. First off is to get past their overwhelming dissatisfaction with a society which invariably leaves them and their peers at the bottom of the pile. Self realisation without 'self actualisation' only leads to further unrest - and besides, it is such a gross assumption that these youngsters arent well on their way to to realising the 'self' - its insulting in fact and suggestive of the social divide which demands they realise the 'self' from the perspective of the demands of a society which continually fails them.

They self realise alright, they realise that because they are all crowded into the inner city zones of multiple deprivation that there is little or no hope for any but the few to ever escape the effect of said deprivations on their lives in the immediate sense, and their futures which, in the long term, includes any children they may produce.

The five points below (in green) come from Maslow and were included in his paper (1943) A Theory of Human Motivation

Physiological needs: Food, shelter, sexual satisfaction i.e those needs needed for basic survival.

I once lived as a single mun on benefits (doing voluntary work) and it wasnt an easy task to keep them well fed and clothed despite doing home cooking and being good with a sewing machine - the lack of cash has a knock on effect and many other areas suffer too. Going to the pictures as a family or swimming or any number of other things which families do together were rarities and holidays were a none starter - these are the things which are taken for granted by many and help to provide a family structure - being poor is pretty damned desperate.

Safety needs: The need to feel safe within your environment. Also refers to emotional and physical safety.

Now this one would be funny if it wasnt for the seriousness of it. I went to visit a friend one night in Wythenshawe (Manchesters biggest, I think, housing estate) we went to the shops and I was more than shocked to see bars and grills over the counter - and that was in about 1980......... its hard to feel safe in an environment like that one.

Social Needs: The need for love, friendship and belongingness

No problems on this one........... unless of course you consider that many of these people wish they 'belonged' to an altogether different way of life.

Esteem needs: The need for self respect, status and recognition from others.

This is a biggie in areas of multiple deprivation and leads to much of the crime we hear about.

contd.

Self actualisation: The point of reaching ones full potential. Are you capable at excelling yourself?

What potential?, by this stage many of the products of the inner city schools are convinced that they arent capable of very much at all - the current initiative to keep young people doing 'something' till they are 18 may just have an effect, on that one we will have to wait and see........



The above is only prevalent in certain areas and by no means applies to all of the people there and it is all very idyllic for somebody lucky enough to live in an area where there are at least 'some' employment opportunities and where desperation to provide doesnt always lead to despair, depression or crime.

Its no coincidence that the worst affected of these areas are where crime is beginning to bubble over at its violent worst - these youngsters need hope for the future rather than the self identity of 'criminal no hoper'.

What they dont need is a stint in the armed forces to thin out their numbers - what they dont need are patronising attitudes from people who think they know better than they do - these people self realise a lot sooner than most but their realisations come up empty and their self 'actualisations' form very different patterns to those formed by people from more priviliged backgrounds/areas.

Many Thanks for your 'Opinion' Trish-much Appreciated.


You demonstrate a strong interest in Behavourial Science-may i respectfully suggest some additional authorities whose theories you may find as interesting as Abraham Maslow?.

Elton Mayo
Professor E.Wight Bakke
Douglas McGregor
Frederick Herzberg

-------All good Theoretical Reading-------

Yes, it is my opinion though it has been presented in an academic manner. It is based on and itemises a theory one of the most respected psychologists the world has known to date. This is demonstrated by the inclusion of his findings in the works of many 'current' reputable psychologists and sociologists alike.


You suggest some other authorities but neglect to say why you chose those particular ones - for the most part, I found their research to be outdated, biased, invalidated by negative sample research or totally irrelevant to attitudes in 2008.

I would be more than happy however, to discuss particular aspects of their research if you would care to elborate further.............

As you say-Attitudes change-and no doubt will change again?-your appetite for researching theories is commendable-but i must respectfully decline your kind offer to elaborate further-I am,but a humble man,who has an agenda to enjoy life in preference to continual debate on theories which,on balance,can have no positive outcome other than in the pursuit of conversion to ones own opinion.

I wish you well with your research.

My profuse apologies - I thought you started this thread to glean perspectives other than your own - maybe you are quite right, this thread is coming to an end............. I thought that was the whole idea of starting a thread personally, a bit of enlightenment from the perspective of others............. whatever.............

Hi all.
Well i have just one final thing to say in all this.
Yes trish society has turned it's back on these kids, but just like our brave service men/women, these kids can choose between going out and causing damage, mayhem and kicking and stabing someone to death. Please do not tell me that society has turned these kids in to senless animals. They know what they are doing and they know it is wrong. We as a soceity must take steps to stop the muggings, the damage and the killings on our streets. I for one would rather see these kidsmade into responsible men and women Taught to respect others, learn disipline and rather the kill or and injure people on the streets of our country and our own folk, do a service to our country and kill our enemies instead.

Well I for one have no enemies I want killing.

Those Kids are neither owned by you,nor owned by the State!!!
If they commit a Crime,prosecute and punish them for it.

Strange,people proposing Pre-emptive Criminal Punishment in the Land of the Magna Charta!!!!

haha, Id forgotten about that comment - its not my usual form of address but I never could stand people being patronising and I guess it was a response to that...........

Of course these kids choose their behaviours.......... thats exactly what Ive been harping on about - its not called the Urban Jungle for nothing - I think some people have no idea of just how difficult life on the streets of the inner city actually is

its all well and good looking at the symptons of social decay from the lofty vantage point of "Im alright Jack" - how could people who think that way ever grasp the realities of deprivation on the lives of people who exist in its midst........ its all academic if you have never been a kid in the midst of all that or at least to have grown with such kids - if we jump here to the hildren of the ultra rich - how many of us here grew up with kids like that?

Consumerism is rife and it is bringing out the worst of the primeval urge to succeed - sometimes I see society as a donkey which is being enticed forward by the jolly controllers with a carrot on a stick.......

Im not sure if it was down to the Marshall plan after WW2 or, if it was down to that guy who was a brother in law of Freud who got into the early advertising stuff of pushing tobacco (and look where that one got us) but society and especially people in power are swayed far too often simply because they dont ask for more facts - maybe we have all been Freaudianly duped into a materialist way of being so that we wont complain where stuff is produced just so long as we have this 'stuff'.................

These inner city kids see the materialism of the rest of sociey, tv ads etc, all the media benefit from advertising, its made many peple rich after all - everyone benefits except..................................





the kids who never had the entrance fees............

The zones of inner city deprivation, in diagram form look a little like a dart board but the rings vary in shade, the inner cities are an urgent red and the outer zones are a cool and floaty pink