There are criminals walking our streets who have gotten away with murder, rape and other serious crimes due to technicalities or loopholes in the law or just having a high priced lawyer. So what is your opinion of vigilante justice? Should we just let the legal system handle criminals who break the law or should we be allowed to take matters into our own hands and punish the guilty when the law fails to?
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if everyone was to decide on the guilt or innocence of our neighbors, family, friends or strangers based on guesses, rumors, and suspicion where would our civilization end up?
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In my opinion we as a people should NOT take matters into our own hands to punish the guilty - because the question becomes how do you know when the law fails?
Does it fail because in USA one is considered innocent until proven guilty and the standard is high - and if by jury it is a jury of one's peers.
JeanKimberley: if everyone was to decide on the guilt or innocence of our neighbors, family, friends or strangers based on guesses, rumors, and suspicion where would our civilization end up?
JeanKimberley: In my opinion we as a people should NOT take matters into our own hands to punish the guilty - because the question becomes how do you know when the law fails?
Does it fail because in USA one is considered innocent until proven guilty and the standard is high - and if by jury it is a jury of one's peers.
But my point is that the person is 100% guilty but has gotten released on a technicality.
jac379: If the law gets it wrong sometimes, I dread to think what you'd do.
And that's my point. Look at the OJ Simpson case as a very high profile example. He was clearly guilty of murdering his ex but got away with it. In a perfect world the families of his victims would be able to get revenge by having him meet with a similar fate and get away with it. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and blood for blood...
I have little faith in the justice system anymore. The law seems to be there to protect the criminals and get them released on a technicality while many times innocent people are used as scapegoats and thrown in jail just so the police can close a case and make a victims family happy.
Although I may be jumping the gun, if the economy gets worse and the welfare state goes bankrupt then the rich will lose their riot insurance and prevention.
If this happens then the bourgeoisie will soon drop their liberal, posturing front and maybe, just maybe, we will have a law enforcement that works and not one crafted to appease the conscience of effete SWPL librarians and social workers. We don't need a police force that acts like a liberal-pacifist activity and sports club.
We need a police force headed by the common man. Like this working class orphan who smashed the Sicilian mafia;
jac379pontyclun, South Glamorgan, Wales UK12,293 posts
BadCompany709: And that's my point. Look at the OJ Simpson case as a very high profile example. He was clearly guilty of murdering his ex but got away with it. In a perfect world the families of his victims would be able to get revenge by having him meet with a similar fate and get away with it. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and blood for blood...
I don't think you should be allowed to have your own nail clippers in case you hurt yourself.
I certainly don't think you should be allowed to go round killing people.
jac379pontyclun, South Glamorgan, Wales UK12,293 posts
Obstinance_Works: Although I may be jumping the gun, if the economy gets worse and the welfare state goes bankrupt then the rich will lose their riot insurance and prevention.
If this happens then the bourgeoisie will soon drop their liberal, posturing front and maybe, just maybe, we will have a law enforcement that works and not one crafted to appease the conscience of effete SWPL librarians and social workers. We don't need a police force that acts like a liberal-pacifist activity and sports club.
We need a police force headed by the common man. Like this working class orphan who smashed the Sicilian mafia;
Of course the problem with vigilante justice is how do you know if a person is really guilty? We see people perjure themselves and lie on the witness stand just to get an outcome that favors them and there have been cases where police have actually planted evidence to see someone convicted because they believe they are guilty or cause they may have gotten away with less serious crimes in the past. So vigilante justice might work 9/10 times but that 1 time you get an innocent victim who would unfairly be punished for a crime they did not commit.
jac379: Hey, you might just have found an audience at last, Obs.
Just make sure BadCompany's not out without his carer, or off his leash when you don't want him on a killing spree, eh?
You really think the people on here reflect people in general? What goes against the grain on here is not what goes against the grain on a council estate let me assure you of that.
Proles don't really talk about issues, and even when they do, they do not do so online. So I'm asking you to be aware that CS is naturally SWPL, shut-in, enclaver or nerd centric, and to not extrapolate from here a general consensus of the populaton total because you would be bang wrong in doing so.
And for the record, I like that you talk about and analyse things - it's one of the things I like about you despite growing up in a world made dark and sinister because of people who think just like you do - but it's the conclusions you draw from the analysis where you make the mistake. And this touches upon why people don't like Marxists and Liberals - because you always lose. If you were so smart and so educated then why do you lose so goddamn always?
Obstinance_Works: You really think the people on here reflect people in general? What goes against the grain on here is not what goes against the grain on a council estate let me assure you of that.
Proles don't really talk about issues, and even when they do, they do not do so online. So I'm asking you to be aware that CS is naturally SWPL, shut-in, enclaver or nerd centric, and to not extrapolate from here a general consensus of the populaton total because you would be bang wrong in doing so.
And for the record, I like that you talk about and analyse things - it's one of the things I like about you despite growing up in a world made dark and sinister because of people who think just like you do - but it's the conclusions you draw from the analysis where you make the mistake. And this touches upon why people don't like Marxists and Liberals - because you always lose. If you were so smart and so educated then why do you lose so goddamn always?
jac379pontyclun, South Glamorgan, Wales UK12,293 posts
Obstinance_Works: You really think the people on here reflect people in general? What goes against the grain on here is not what goes against the grain on a council estate let me assure you of that.
Proles don't really talk about issues, and even when they do, they do not do so online. So I'm asking you to be aware that CS is naturally SWPL, shut-in, enclaver or nerd centric, and to not extrapolate from here a general consensus of the populaton total because you would be bang wrong in doing so.
And for the record, I like that you talk about and analyse things - it's one of the things I like about you despite growing up in a world made dark and sinister because of people who think just like you do - but it's the conclusions you draw from the analysis where you make the mistake. And this touches upon why people don't like Marxists and Liberals - because you always lose. If you were so smart and so educated then why do you lose so goddamn always?
I grew up on a council estate, spent nearly half my life on one.
jac379: I grew up on a council estate, spent nearly half my life on one.
So who's extrapolating incorrectly now?
Being one of Thatcher's lower middle class may explain your social attitudes. There are quite a few of those former working class types who through guilt or whatever espouse this leftoidian worldview as a form of, to borrow from Maddog, misplaced empathy. A way for the nouveau bourgeoisie to believe that you still stand for the poor and the beaten down.
I'm assuming you're telling me the truth here, and if so then you must know that your extreme emphasis on individualism, your liberalism and political correctness is enclaver through and through and is completely at odds with the sense of community, sameness and social conservatism of the proles? If you ever came from the poor, then you must know that the poor think and act nothing like social workers and hipsters.
I would suspect so. I also think that because Jac is intelligent she likes to be intelligent in her own unique way, meaning that she has the ideology of the intellectual playground and not one that accords with the mundane facts of reality.
jac379pontyclun, South Glamorgan, Wales UK12,293 posts
Obstinance_Works: Being one of Thatcher's lower middle class may explain your social attitudes. There are quite a few of those former working class types who through guilt or whatever espouse this leftoidian worldview as a form of, to borrow from Maddog, misplaced empathy. A way for the nouveau bourgeoisie to believe that you still stand for the poor and the beaten down.
I'm assuming you're telling me the truth here, and if so then you must know that your extreme emphasis on individualism, your liberalism and political correctness is enclaver through and through and is completely at odds with the sense of community, sameness and social conservatism of the proles? If you ever came from the poor, then you must know that the poor think and act nothing like social workers and hipsters.
It's true, the Left in this country, in the US and elsewhere is riddled with Marxistic enclavers who think just like you Jac.
And the old trade unionists of industry who didn't make it off the council estate, where can they be found today? In UKIP. The Libertarian party the bourgeoise Left despises. And do you know why Nigel Farage is popular amongst the proles? Because of telling people what they need and what they think, he asks them.
And Hipster always laugh when they come across earthy types who tell them what they don't want to hear. Which is why libtards populate the recesses of the internet and steer clear of the street, because on the spergy interweb forum the hipster usually wins, but on the street the Hipster dies.
I assure you Jac, if you were male and talked like you did in a working class boozer, they would stamp on your skull.
Obstinance_Works: It's true, the Left in this country, in the US and elsewhere is riddled with Marxistic enclavers who think just like you Jac.
And the old trade unionists of industry who didn't make it off the council estate, where can they be found today? In UKIP. The Libertarian party the bourgeoise Left despises. And do you know why Nigel Farage is popular amongst the proles? Because of telling people what they need and what they think, he asks them.
And Hipster always laugh when they come across earthy types who tell them what they don't want to hear. Which is why libtards populate the recesses of the internet and steer clear of the street, because on the spergy interweb forum the hipster usually wins, but on the street the Hipster dies.
I assure you Jac, if you were male and talked like you did in a working class boozer, they would stamp on your skull.
lifeisadreamMexi Go, Mexico State Mexico16,713 posts
RayfromUSA: Poll: Do you agree with Vigalante justice?
Only when it's appropriate.
It should not be but when justice has being compromised, it seems there is not other way.
unlaoised: When would be appropriate?
Example: A couple criminal enters to your business and not only they want the money or any valuable thing but they hit and many times kill the owner of the business and the workers. The Police get the criminals and in a week or so they are out, doing the same crimes again and again,
Why they are out? Because, authorities are corrupted and if they do not free the criminals, they will be "erased".
And taking those criminals to jail: Will those criminals ever going to be good citizens???
lifeisadream: It should not be but when justice has being compromised, it seems there is not other way. Example: A couple criminal enters to your business and not only they want the money or any valuable thing but they hit and many times kill the owner of the business and the workers. The Police get the criminals and in a week or so they are out, doing the same crimes again and again,
Why they are out? Because, authorities are corrupted and if they do not free the criminals, they will be "erased".
And taking those criminals to jail: Will those criminals ever going to be good citizens???
No they aren't. And many times the police are actually corrupt and in league with organized crime, so there is no justice to be had from the courts in such cases. So sometimes vigilante justice is the only kind of justice available.
Whenever outlaws own the government (a very common situation) vigilante justice is certainly appropriate.
RayfromUSA: No they aren't. And many times the police are actually corrupt and in league with organized crime, so there is no justice to be had from the courts in such cases. So sometimes vigilante justice is the only kind of justice available.
Whenever outlaws own the government (a very common situation) vigilante justice is certainly appropriate.
Whew, dangerous ground.
I certainly understand the anger and frustration associated with an incompetent police force, for whatever reason, but vigilanteism can quickly turn to mob justice...and whereto from there?
lifeisadreamMexi Go, Mexico State Mexico16,713 posts
Obstinance_Works: It's true, the Left in this country, in the US and elsewhere is riddled with Marxistic enclavers who think just like you Jac.
And the old trade unionists of industry who didn't make it off the council estate, where can they be found today? In UKIP. The Libertarian party the bourgeoise Left despises. And do you know why Nigel Farage is popular amongst the proles? Because of telling people what they need and what they think, he asks them.
And Hipster always laugh when they come across earthy types who tell them what they don't want to hear. Which is why libtards populate the recesses of the internet and steer clear of the street, because on the spergy interweb forum the hipster usually wins, but on the street the Hipster dies.
I assure you Jac, if you were male and talked like you did in a working class boozer, they would stamp on your skull.
Do you need a mirror Rumples?
Yes, Jac is opinionated and stubborn and impolite sometimes but she is also a good person.
RayfromUSA: No they aren't. And many times the police are actually corrupt and in league with organized crime, so there is no justice to be had from the courts in such cases. So sometimes vigilante justice is the only kind of justice available.
Whenever outlaws own the government (a very common situation) vigilante justice is certainly appropriate.
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Do you agree with Vigalante justice?(Vote Below)