"ALL BETS ARE OFF"

Way Back...In The Biblical Era..................The Jewish People ....................................Were Given...And Allowed The Land................................ That God Granted Them
On Certain Conditions......And One Of These Conditions Was......................................That They Worshipped................................................... No Other Gods

For....It Was Only 40 Days..... After The Jews Received The Torah From Mount Sanai
(The Commandments From God)
That The Jews Created Their Own God....(A Golden Calf)...And Worshipped This........ As A God

Now...If Im Correct......One Of Gods Commandments..................(In A Laymens Term)...Was

"If You Want This Land I Have Granted Thee?
"Then There Shall Be No Gods Other Than I"

So..If This Was One Of Gods Rules?...(Which ...It Most Certainly Was)...... For The Jews To Have This Given Land.... As Their..... "Promised Land?"
And They Went And Disobeyed This Rule?
Then?....When They Made And Worshipped.... That Golden Calf?"
"As We Americans Would Say Here?"
"All Bets Are Off"............."Meaning?"

"The Jewish People Have No Ligitimate Claim To Palestine"
(Since They Broke That Rule From God...Way Back Then"
"Therefore...Their Jewish Claims Of Ownership...By The Zionist....... Of The Palestinian Land They Now Call Israel?"
"Was Null And Void...... A Long Time Ago Way Back Then


"And ...One Day...Possibly In Our Lifetime?"

"Once More......It Again.....Will Be Known As...............Palestine"



detective detective detective detective detective

Comments (96)

ysabeljhen
Namwave
Good day to you.It reminds me years back when I was working in Jordan.That time when lots of Palestinian moved to Jordan
because of War happened there.According to my Palestinian flat mates 1 also from Israel .Think it has to do with the claiming of lands if I remamber it right.cheers
They were spread and cast out of their land but also promised to be returned to it after a time. The Bible does give the borders and people for Israel to have.

It was never palistine or palistinian(until the Greeks became better known). More like Philistines. The land was usurped many times from different lands of God's choosing to punish Israel.

Now they have been returned as of roughly 1948. Many say it matches the biblical time line. For a country considered to be so small yet continually able to fend off so much; I would think more than twice before trying to give away or take what God has outlined and promised.
Yeah_Nah
I think you're confused with the actual names "Palestine and Israel" in the bible/Quran/Tanack?

The actual land was Canaan where the Phoenicians are from eg Lebanon, Syria, etc.

The name Israel came from Jacob. The actual name Israel is a misnomer in biblical terms of Judea and Samaria.

Canaan is the land what people are fighting, arguing about. Israel were a people, Jesus (Yeshua) wasn't a "Jew" nor was he from "Israel".

handshake
Check the history and maps according to then and now.

Philistine was with in the borders God gave. There were also other lands and/or people mentioned that God granted to Israel as part of the promised land.

It was the Greeks that referred "philistine" over to "palistine".
Yeah_Nah
@Draegoneer

What history maps? Since when?

I'm not religious but I believe in God. God wasn't a real estate agent. "Chosen", "Master race" from a written book?

When was the "book" written?
Are you talking about Zeus, Flavius Josephus, Plato or hieroglyphics?

What book (scripture) do you believe? I don't believe or have faith of any of the nonsense of it.
Then maybe you shouldn't critique what you haven't even tried to extensively read or learn.
ysabeljhen
Yeah and draegonwave

I think this is intetesting topic
Would you mind both I just wanna share this one
...I want to learn more how this history repeat itself....cheers guyshandshake

The answer to this question is the same as I gave on another question.

The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises:

1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham;

2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land;

3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and

4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.

The Jews have maintained ties to their homeland for more than 3,700 years.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in Palestine continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.

When Jews began to immigrate to Palestine in large numbers in 1882, fewer than 250,000 Arabs lived there, and the majority of them had arrived in recent decades. Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine.

cheers
What nam states is true.

But there is a lot more to the whole picture concerning God, the Bible, history, and archeology.
Yeah_Nah
@ysabeljhen

I can't argue with that. That's your faith and belief.

Abram and Sarai were from Assyria which is nowhere near "modern" day Israel.

I respect your faith regardless of your personal views/faith/belief or religion but I don't follow your doctrine. You have a good heart
Yeah_Nah
@ysabeljhen

I think it just boils down to who is a "real Jew"? Ishmael and Yeshua have differences of opinions I guess dunno

I can't see electricity.....but I know it's real handshake
ysabeljhen
Yeahhug thanl you just trying to get in the conversationpeace

I personally wish Palestinians and Israelis could share the land they dwell in, however, even if they have issues, their problem should be viewed in the context of today's realities not some myths and stories about time long gone. Ground reality is that there are flesh and bones human beings called Israelis and Palestinians who deserve the human right to life and liberty. We should never violate that right under any pretext, most importantly stories attributed to ancient Hebrew or Phillistines, David or Saladincheers handshake
Yeah_Nah
@Draegoneer

There's no archeology regarding Gwyneth Paltrow, Roman Polanski or Benzion Mileikowsky (Ben Netanyahu)?

Facts aren't anti semitic.

And yes, you and Nam are right......history only matters when you're right. Holodomor was a fact as well. Personally I don't see the fascination for "Israel"???

Maybe your Governance in the area, ie territory??? Maybe it's your faith??? Maybe it's the spaghetti monster in the sky? Maybe it's the ADL?????confused
History includes the land in Roman and Greek control as well.

the crusades, British control, etc.

It's the same; Jews get pushed out,murdered, people move in and take.

It's not just some doctrine or faith.

I'd like to be able to call it all a "myth" at times. But there is evidence of a mass exodus from Egypt 2 or more centuries before the time line is started.

There are many other aspects and discoveries made the support the Bible.

In the state of Texas, Glen Rose, a park exists with human and dinosaur prints in the same period(always controversial when it goes against science). It's not the only place that exists with such things.

There are many things people want to explain away or rationalize. Instead of feeding on what's being served, there is also a lot available that won't be offered because it contradicts what's being served.
ysabeljhen
There are an infinite ways to peacefully resolve the Israeli- Palestinian conflict. They all start with compromise.

On one hand, the jews who live in the West Bank need to realize that they cannot continue to build Jewish settlements in land that is not “official Israeli territory”.

On the other hand, the Palestinians need to acknowledge Israel as a Jewish state, and realize that the only solution to the conflict is being at peace living amongst jews. Many Palestinians accept this reality, but a vast majority still do not, while some even call for the extermination of all jews.

There is also a big dent in the Palestinian education, where children are taught to hate Israel, while they are already in pre- school. This is terrible progress for future generations.

A Palestinian school textbook, depicting soldiers being aggressive with Palestinians


I would say that the current leaderships in both countries is flawed. The Palestinian and Israeli nations need a new generation of leaders, who can put the past behind them, and find a path to peace.handshake
Yeah_Nah
"There are many things people want to explain away or rationalize. Instead of feeding on what's being served, there is also a lot available that won't be offered because it contradicts what's being served."

As in the self fulfilling prophecy?

As for "It's the same; Jews get pushed out,murdered, people move in and take."???
Read what you wrote. Why were "Jews" pushed out, murdered, 'persecuted' since Egypt?

I'm talking about since Abram (Abraham) and Sarai (Sarah) were kicked out of Egypt?
Have you heard about the parable...."wheat from the Taff? Do you actually know what that's about?????

moping

Think of Joseph, Moses and Abraham teddybear
Yeah_Nah
Not Taffies though, love the Taffies, Welsh are good honest rugby players. My Bad.
You mean the wheat and the tares.


I do know. It's clear that you don't. The Bible does warn that leaning on egypt is like leaning on a broken reed. I suppose that's why I don't trust the time lines given by man. Any time something is dated wrong with a known start, there's a rationalization as to why it's so far off.

Ancient maps with modern day maps. archeological discoveries of cities such as Sodom and Gomorrah. Some things admittedly hard to discern but more is still being discovered.

Potential discoveries of the existence of dragons.


Since the Original blog is based on some guidelines from the Bible, then that is the standard that should be used.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel still doesn't have the total outlined in the Bible for their borders. They've only gained when forced to fight. Even with in a decade before the Jewish people being granted their land back, there was still zero acknowledgement of the existence of palistine.
Each time Israel is brought up, I'm also reminded that the Bible also says that Israel will never know peace until the return of the Messiah.

I have seen nothing in modern day to discredit any thing in the Bible.

Something with such accuracies as man does continue to discover and learn.
Yeah_Nah
Yep, you should write a book about it. The title should be "THIRD TESTAMENT"

angel
You haven't given much Yeah Nah.

Where peace is possible, hopefully it will be. Israel will know none and always be persecuted. It doesn't make the parable of the wheat with tares moot. You might be surprised at how many Arab Muslims are part of the IDF. The fighting force and the nation are a little more diverse than any one ever seems to talk about much.

There is quite a bit that defies man's science, history time lines, and denials.

If any one actually reads the Bible and cares, there isn't anything written that modern day can disprove. The question is; how much will a person search out beyond?

There are more than a few books starting from Genesis, that outline the boundaries of the promised land, God gave for Israel and more. They are part of the prophecies.

There are discoveries that support places and events of the bible while man's actions over time, haven't negated it either.

History does coincide with the last displacement and what's taken place. There are experts that say the time line from the Bible matches the return of the land to the Jews in around 1948.
...politics and religion...not for me.uh oh

cool wine
To think how many many moons ago they lived side by side in peace and harmony.
Nam, everyone worships gold. Sad but true. It has long since replaced God in every society, and more in the USA, the most capitalistic country of them all, than anywhere else. The almighty buck is worshipped, and your billionaire leader is the pope for at least 4 years and promising ever more gold, no matter what other commandments have been ignored, and will be ignored, in the process.

I'm not being aggressive or trying to pick a fight, 'kay? I'm just saying when everything is about money, it doesn't have to be in the shape of a golden calf to break that commandment. Every country is all about the money, no matter what religion they pretend to follow.

handshake
Miss Ele

This Isnt About Gold........Its About The Breaking Of The "Rules"
"That God Presented To The Jews"

"When The Jews Broke The "Rules" That God Set Forth To Them?"

"That?...Was The Deal Breaker"

"So?...I See It As...... The Jews Lost Their Rights To Their Promised Land"


"As Far As Capitalism Goes?"

"Their Aint A Country In This World Where Money Doesnt Come First"

"China Is Among The Top Capitalist In This World"

"In Reality...The Whole Of The World ..Are Capitalist"....................detective
"God Is Not Here To Testify"

"But The Jews Broke His Conditions.... Didnt They?"

"Adam And Eve Did The Same Thing"

"And Look What Happened To Them"


"A Bargain Is A Bargain"

"And if One Side Doesnt Live Up To Their End"

"The Deal Is Off...Right?"


"So Therefore...The Jews Have No Claim"

"To The Promised Land Anymore"...............................detective
Adam and Eve were kicked from the garden. The first blood shed was that of making clothing for them.

God didn't forsake or deny them as people. He didn't condemn them. He punished them and it carried through out.

The Promise of the land stood and stands. Certain covenants were made. Sometimes chosen prophets and priests intervened on behalf that God with held his wrath. The covenant; He will never break.

How ever, rulers or leaders, will come and go. Push hard enough and they may go quickly rather than long standing to rule and lead. More than a few leaders were given to their enemies or even died quickly for going too far.

Israel can't be in that big of a hurry for much. They didn't touch the Mosque when they entered into Jerusalem during their 6 day war.

Palestine isn't recognized by most Arab nations yet it's used for political purposes against Israel. Israel IS recognized but some of the countries want them annihilated.

Who attacked who first? Why do they keep it going?

I've sat back for many years now. Israel won't be destroyed or moved much unless God allows it. There is nothing but the warnings of their never ending battles and struggles after the return to the lands, until Judgement day.
ysabeljhen
Both groups point to the covenant promise of God towards Abraham and his descendants, which include both Jew and Arab.

The British and the United Nations made unilateral declarations of where the boundaries ought to be and who ought to own the land, with the subsequent results that we see until today.

What either group has done or not done in defense of what they strongly believe to be theirs is beside the point, and it is true that both sides have done wrong in their struggle to hold onto or claim what they believe with all their hearts to be theirs.

In my opinion, it dishonors the sacredness of the Holy Land, , for there to be so much fighting and violence there, but there you are. I would love to see a solution created, but I don't believe it will ever happen until both sides learn to see one another with full humanity and respect. My daily experiences when I lived there showed me that there is hope for this to happen, though I also had many experiences that showed me otherwise. I pray for peace in the Middle East, along with many others on both sides of this terrible conflict. handshake cheers
"So True Mr Dragon"

"But...For The Many Many Generations Of The People That Lived In Palestine?"
"It Was Their Land...Their Homes...For All Those Generations"
"Then On May 14th...1948....Palestine...With A Quick Stamp Of Approval From The United States?"
"Over Night..... Became The State Of............ Israel"

"Millions Of The People That Lived There For As Long As They Can Remember?"
"Were...Over A Period Of Time.... Driven From Their Land"
(Lets Be Realistic And Realize The Men... Women.... And Children That Were Chased Away From Their Homes)
"Thats A Reality"...Whether Or Not God Decided To Give Them The Land Or Not"

"So...What Does Anybody Do That Comes And Steals Your Land...Your Life....And Your Childrens Future?"
"Youll Do Whatever It Takes To Get Whats Yours.... Back"
"Youll Form A Resistance Movement...Right?.....Of Course Im Right"
"And Though These Organizations May Be Classified As Terrorists...To Me?...They Are Not...............And....WhyNot?"...Because...If Not For The Israeli Occupation?...They Never Would Have Existed
"They Were All Formed And Born.... Because Of The Israeli Occupation Of Their Land

The P L O...Was Formed On May 28th,1964"
"Fatah"...October 10,1959"
"Hezbollah"...1987 In Southern Lebanon"
"Hamas...Was Formed In 1987"

"And Again Ill Repeat It"....All Of These So Called...... "Terrorist Organizations?"
"Would Never Have Existed If The Jews Did Not Steal"
Their Lives And Land".........................................detective
ysabeljhen
Nam

Seriously; it’s not legal, under international law, to take land by force from the people who already live there.

This was both a concern, and an ongoing argument, from the earliest days of the Zionist movement.

Finally, those who felt that forcing out the native residents was acceptable won out - and that’s what they did, and what they are continuing to try to do ....handshake

It is debatable sigh
When the Jewish people were under punishment, the survivors went into captivity,enslavement, and servitude. Their homes, belongings, and lands often destroyed to a point. But always usurped by the victors and neighboring peoples. In part, the spoils of war. Until about 637 A.D., there were no Arabs or Muslims. From roman rule they surrendered to the Caliphate under Mohammad. It went well for time.

Even in the Bible, when god would grant the Jews their rights again, to return home, they had to retake what was theirs. They often towed the line quite well for a while. Neighboring lands paying tribute and more.

Maybe the age old lesson that you might appreciate more if you have to work and fight for it?

The pattern and form didn't seem to change much starting from 1948 except they still hold this time. There were many other times before 1948 they didn't.

Their battles and struggles continue. Persecution has never ceased that I'm aware of.
Miss YSA

"Thats Debatable?"


" Under International Law?"

"Its Is Forbidden To Occupy Those Lands"

"With The Victors People"


"The West Bank Falls Into This Category"

"And The Zionist?

"Keep Building Settlements On These Lands"...........................detective
ysabeljhen
Nam

My idea on Palestine side....


Seriously; it’s not legal, under international law, to take land by force from the people who already live there.

This was both a concern, and an ongoing argument, from the earliest days of the Zionist movement.

Finally, those who felt that forcing out the native residents was acceptable won out - and that’s what they did, and what they are continuing to try to do ....handshake

It is debatable sigh.
Lady Jhen;

Terrorist attacks and such also force changes according to time and environment.

You leave out that Israel was forced into war which changed every thing that took place under those times.

Even the U.S. and other countries have made changes during occupation and war. Look what happened to Russian and German lands post WWII.
Yeah_Nah
Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons.

What is the end game? Why support a rogue state which has no value regarding human rights?

I'd suggest reading about Maccabees overthrow. The word "Jew" was from 70 AD. Judea according to Biblical scripture weren't Northern Canaanites and nor were they Hyksos.

The original blood line from Abram (Hebrew) never came from Canaan.

The word Israel was a people, not the land.....I'd suggest people read the bible in context
Yeah Nah.

Israel was a land. Israelite(tribes) were people. But first, it was a name given to patriarch Jacob(Israel-"one that struggled with the divine angel").

The name for the land didn't even come into play until after the Exodus. Jacob's renaming took place in Genesis.
ysabeljhen
With the Israel/Palestine conflicts on right of claiming the promise land is debatable ...I think A better question would be “What solution to the conflict would result in the fewest dead, exploited and traumatized people?”handshake peace
Yeah_Nah
Here's a fun fact which might sound ridiculous to some but still holds water.

Bruce Lee once said "If you get all the disciples in a room, they'd dissagree but if you brought the prophets to a meeting they'd unanimously agree on the TRUTH"

Yeah_Nah
@Drag

"Jacob's renaming took place in Genesis." ???

No, before Jacob there was a land called Canaan. Jacob was a tribe of people and not from "Israel" nor "Samaria" nor "Judea". Read your bible in context.

Abram the Hebrew (cross over) never named Isaac nor Jacob the Israelites.

But, you believe what you want to believe. You're probably right. You must be of the 'chosen ones' confused
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