13 People shot dead in California bar by sole gunman

Comments (21)

I can't begin to imagine the icy fear which so many people are feeling right now, trying to establish if their loved ones are safe. Some will have their worst fears realised. Many, many people at the scene will be traumatised, families will be traumatised by coming so close, or affected by witnessing the impact on their loved ones.

I've got to take my hat off to the sheriff in that video clip for his professionalism in very difficult circumstances. I've watched a number of crime documentaries where mature, senior officers become emotional talking about their investigations. May we remember the impact on the emergency services personnel, the people treating the injured and those taking care of the dead. May we remember those who support the people carrying out this work.

May we also remember the words of the sheriff: the gunman was likely mentally ill. He will likely have had family and friends who will have to deal with his actions and his death.

These situations are so utterly tragic, so completely devastating, so far reaching, such a waste.
Very true Jac.

If there was a way to make it more difficult for those with mental illness to get guns, it would help.
It's okay, Jim. Trump is always talking with the NRA and the Rabbi will be over with his rocket launcher in a minute.
Where there's a gun will, there's a way sad flower
You all don't know how glad I am that I live in Puerto Rico and this kind of mindless violence does not exist down here. The most we have is the drug gangs trying to wipe out the other ones and as long as they don't hit innocent bystanders I can live with that. Even that is becoming quite rare.
There are obviously some pretty low lifes in this country of ours.Negative stuff wasn't as media covered as it is now.

My heart go out to to families.sad flower
The shooter had served in the military and got a honorary discharge.
He even earned a medal for good behavior.
However, since his discharge, he's had a couple of run-ins with police,
and seemed to suffer from Post Stress Disorder.
Its a shame.....I cant for the life of figure out why those wanting to commit suicide seem to want to take so many others with them.....I cant wrap my head around it....and its also a shame that this soldier didn't get the help he needed before this tragedy occurred....he was assessed and they said he didn't need to be taken into custody but what about some damn help for the man?....I feel for all involved and its becoming all too common unfortunately.....wine
No matter where you turn in America we are having a mass shooting. As pro gun as I used to be I'm certainly rethinking my stance.

We have more bad people with easy access to guns then we do good people to protect us.
M4 - perhaps in their anguish & confusion they initially lash out at others and then feel guilty about what they have done and see suicide as their way out of the guilt. dunno

F - The issue is not removing the guns from those who would use them legally, but making it much harder to obtain guns and ammunition & keep them, for those who are most likely to use them illegally.
Maybe they need the adrenaline rush, the complete letting go of inhibitions and feelings of power and control in order to turn the gun on themselves.

Generally, our instinct is self-preservation, so maybe the rampage helps override that. Shooting themselves becomes an extension of the rampage, rather than a thoughtful, more conscious process.

Who knows how it works for each person?
Perhaps. But that guy brought smoke bombs, which he used. He planned the situation.
My guess is, that he didn't plan the guilt, when he saw the horror he caused and eventually turned the gun on himself. Just a guess. If it was his last bullet, perhaps that was planned too. Either way, it's a horrible situation, that we may never fully understand.
I don't know that pre-meditation makes a difference, Jim.

It may leave suicide as the least difficult option, like backing oneself into a corner.

Also, planning means thinking about it, fantasising. If I can imagine the sequence of events, the adrenaline, the letting go of inhibitions, the rampage culmination in a more detached turning on oneself, then so can others. Focussing on the planning and action of the plan leaves less resources for focussing on the suicide. It could be reframed as a heroic enterprise, rather than a sad, scary and painful one.

We do rather push the heroic soldier agenda in the media. We do rather receive this information in a very detached, unempathetic way. Stories may play on our emotions, but ultimately, they are received as a somewhat private fantasy.

The gunman may have been overcome with shame and guilt as you say, but you're interpreting from your own value framework. The story plays on your emotions and in your fantasy you would be overwhelmed with shame and guilt.

As for me, maybe I have fantasies of running through the village playing golf with people's beloved garden gnomes and then showing my bottom for all the world to see. Maybe I interpret from my value framework which involves casting aside all inhibition and jolly decent British etiquette. dunno
This mother's son survived the massacre in Las Vegas last year, where 58 people were
slaughtered from a gunman from a hotel room.
But, he did not survive the gunman in the bar the other night.
Like many people who grieve the senseless murder of their friends & family,
she doesn't want prayers nor nice thoughts, she wants real change to prevent it
from happening to others;

Jesus, that's raw.

It has to be said, we've had mass shootings, but not as many as in the US.

We have guns, but not as many as in the US.
I believe that Jac

It would interesting to compare the above graph with murder rates.
I've often wondered of why the person(s) who have plans to kill another person as to why they don't just go someplace away from others and just blow their brains out and leave everyone else alone.very mad
Jac has said it all really. I am devastated, yet again the perpetrator was known to police. I despair now of anyone feeling really safe in any city or crowded place. It' horrific.
The answer to gun violence is obvious for everyone outside of the States.

(ok, Conrad excluded).

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