A Case for getting rid of borders - The Atlantic - Oct 10, 2015

This article was written in The Atlantic back on October 10th 2015 by an economics professor from George Mason University.
At least philosophically, there are strong reasons to eliminate borders.
They mostly only prevent the migration of people and infringe upon human rights.
Read the article first before commenting. Thanks. cheers



(Continued in first comment of mine below)
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Comments (46)

scold
You must have borders in order to have Identification as a Nation
You must have borders in order to preserve Rule of Law
You must have borders to ensure National Security.
You must have borders to ensure No Overpopulation
You must have borders to Control Leftists Ideals and Agendas
devil
Humans have no rights other than the ones given by a nation....With Borders professor
As in the John Lennon song, Imagine, it is difficult for many people to imagine a world where borders do not exist; where the concept of nationality is irrelevant and everybody is simply an equal guest of this earth.
Jim you should come live in a country like Mexico before deciding you would like to turn the US into something similar.
I've had a very good time in Mexico.
Seeing how I was a poor student at the time. no it wasn't apparent.
No one waited on me but there was a lot of dancing. banana
What are you people smoking?!
uh oh
Spring break at Cancun is not really experiencing Mexico. roll eyes
I've thought for some time that the U.S./Mexican border might be eliminated... essentially annex Mexico into the U.S.
Probably should've been done following the Mexican War circa 1849.

And Cuba.
Should've held on to Cuba after the Spanish American War circa 1900.

The Gulf of Mexico would be essentially a U.S. lake...much as Hudson's Bay is Canadian.

It'd take time to work out details amenable to both the U.S. & Mexico, but I think it should be looked into.
Also Cuba.

Simply set right what once went wrong.
IMO

cowboy
That's not getting rid of borders, Mic!

It is just widening them laugh
If there wasnt a border currently with Mexico the drug cartels would have cart blanche on the entire US and beheading would be worse than the French revolution uh oh

Good thing The Donald has our back, at this Juncture cheers
The U.S. is hardly overpopulated by world standards and the fertility rate of natural born Murkuns is below replacement level.
The U.S. population remains at replacement level/grows because the fertility rate of immigrants is higher than that of natural born Murkuns.

Yet another reason for annexation.
Mexico provides a valuable resource - people!
Amongst many other valuable resources, I should add.

But that's changing.
Won't be long until population (over or otherwise) will cease to be a concern.
Arctic methane's popping like a champagne cork...the 'methane veil' now extends Southward over the entire U.S. and expands at a km/day.

Climate Change is NOT the problem scold
Global Industrial Civilization is the problem.
Climate Change is the solution.
smile

cowboy
The Canadians are growing much better weed than the Mexicans. Should we annex Canada? dunno
Mig - It wasn't Cancun. Indeed, I've never been to any touristy locations in Mexico.

Mic - It would have been great to annex Mexico & Cuba. thumbs up

Embedded image from another site
Annex? very mad

You are talking about colonising independent countries.

Maybe your country would want to be colonised for a while to see what it feels like.
No. No. Invite them to become part of the USA. Who says we had to stop at Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico ?
"Annex? very mad "

Yeah. Annex.
Like was done with Texas. It was once an independent country. It became a state. It was annexed.

I read somewhere that a poll of Mexicans some years ago showed a large majority favored annexation. Wasn't even close... something like 3 to 1 as I recall.

Makes sense if you think 'bout it.
Large numbers of 'em want to get into the U.S. & and get citizenship.
Annexation would do that, and they'd not have to pull up stakes & move.

cowboy
Hey, the UK will be out of the EU shortly, they might be in the mood for a little annexation too.
I don't think any sane country would want to be annexed by any country that would put its own needs above the new country.

There has been no case of colonisation where the people of the colonised country did better out of it.
I think Texas, Louisiana, Alaska, and Hawaii have all done OK.
Suspect the UK still thinks we 'Colonists' will eventually see the error of our ways and beg to be re-annexed into the Commonwealth. roll eyes

Sometimes wonder it wouldn't be such a bad idea dunno

cowboy
Would Texas not be rich anyway due to oil reserves?
What percentage of the Texas population do you think are rich ?

Regardless, I wasn't talking about wealth, Texas reaps benefits by being part of the USA.
Although wealth is never distributed evenly, maybe more would be wealthier if the wealth didn't have to go outside of Texas. If they could keep all the tax money etc
Jim N Thank you.wave
Speaking of the border.It seems that if Trump doesn't get the $5 billion to build the wall he'd be in favor of the government shut down.
uh oh

It is a well concealed fact that Texans are generally disgruntled and want out.
Even now, thousands of 'em are forming a caravan to head to Mexico.
They intend to cross the border illegally (assuming it still exists) and claim asylum.
yay










rolling on the floor laughing

cowboy
laugh

But I'm sure they add more to the coffers than, say, Wyoming?
online today!
miclee•5 mins ago•North Of The Straits Of, Florida USA
uh oh

It is a well concealed fact that Texans are generally disgruntled and want out.
Even now, thousands of 'em are forming a caravan to head to Mexico.
They intend to cross the border illegally (assuming it still exists) and claim asylum.
yay

@Mic Uhoh is right and comical in a sorta way.grin
Yes, and that is $5 Billion MORE, when they haven't spent the money, that they've already been given.
JN plus the $5 billion there would also be other costs as well not just for the wall.I should've posted the other cost involved but I'm in the middle of making homemade biscuits.
And just over a year after writing the article Trump is in power. Iimmigrants make the rat race more intense and create fatter profits for the 1% which trickle down to the next 19% sub-elite. We know this.

But they do make everywhere feel like a 2* hotel and lower wages for people already on low wages. Human beings are not fungible and would prefer not to live by bread alone, they want something alternative to this soulless liberal capitalist Blade Runner future.
How do you gauge the economic costs of being able to only appreciate your neighbours from a foreign and superficial perspective and you end up with a social life of permanent tourism? How do you factor the loneliness that comes from not being able to know your neighbours as well? The novelty of having nothing in common with the people around you is good for a couple of weeks, but not your whole life. The damage you do to the social fabric isn't calculated in quarterly profits but it is real.
And look at all the faces on these forums and ask yourself what stands out. This international dating website in borderless cyberspace is itself an enclave of white flighters. Although they come from all over the world what stands out about CS is the diversity that isn't here. These forums are middle aged, middle class and white more so than our countries in general. With all of cyberspace to choose from people still choose birds of a feather
Although enclave or not the internet is an example of permanent tourism. Diversity will make people's general attitude towards others more like it is on the internet. Home is where the heart is but the internet is basically homeless and will yield the same alienated people that diversity does.

The truth is that people need a sense of fellow-feeling and a home to call their own, if you take this away from them in exchange for cheap sweated goods and a curry then you have no place to complain about Trump, you are the reason for Trump.
And there are liberal capitalists like Mark Zuckerberg who believe that if we can marshall the forces of mass distraction then we can make it so people don't mind being homeless. And being so connected is a replacement for having any real friends, that's what Facebook is. The hope of diversity rests upon nobody going outside anymore, a retreat into borderless cyberspace to live out some sort of Matrix with unlimited bread and circus.

Now these nerds need shooting. Same goes for Elon Musk who would put our milliions of drivers out of work overnight. The nerds are so wrong about this that even the US Republican party is behaving in an anti-capitalist way and upsetting business in the interest of the common good i.e. what is to most people a better quality of life.
What a bunch of lies though. One of the bigger cover ups was in disguising the fact that immigrants lower wages and conditions for the native working class. British liberals now admit this but for years that lie was maintained in the same way the child grooming in Rotherham was covered up.

The truth is that immigration makes society less equal which is why inequality has increased throughout the years of mass immigration. It makes hiring people more profitable and working for people less profitable which is to say it grants more power to the bosses. There's a reason the opening of borders arose in tandem with soaring inequality, what trickles down from the bosses does not go to everyone but only a small sub-elite of the upper middle class. 80% of people are worse off and 80% of people were better off in 1968 or would have been had they been alive at the time.

And then we're left with liberal capitalism and the effect it had on global poverty. Well, if it wasn't for China - which is state capitalist not liberal capitalist - there wouldn't be any reduction in global poverty throughout the neoliberal era. China is the only country in the world where the prosperity of business has not all gone to the elite and sub-elite.
The reason equal opportunities worked so well in America is because you were all penniless and fresh off the boat who then pillaged the native Americans and distributed their land equally amongst the colonisers. You were equally advantaged by standing on an Indian burial ground but from here on out you had roughly equal chance. The state seized land and gave it you for free - that was your socialism - and but you all got an equal freebie.

The problem of the melting pot is that it was never meant for people who are wildly different and divergent or super rich and mega poor. Internally America was built on a freebie for everyone, but a fair shake after this. Things start to break down when the chances in life are extremely different from one person to the next.
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