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Trump proven right on hydroxychloroqine

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What that study appears to do is demonstrate that more research is required into the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.

The study didn't use randomised sample groups and was based upon observational data which may have skewed the results. It doesn't mention whether it was a double blind study, but does mention other possible variables within the study such as when drugs were, or were not administered.

Further research may indicate which patients might benefit and at what point in the disease process the drug might be most effective, perhaps in combination with other treatment regimes.

That's a far cry from saying Trump was right to tout hydroxychloroquine as a disease treatment, a preventative treatment, or that it has no negative, or dangerous side effects.

I'm pretty sure Trump said that one study showing no benefit of hydroxychloroquine is enough to negate it's potential efficacy, so he won't be expecting any apology given only one study implies that it might be effective under certain circumstances.
The FDA recently (June 15th) "revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19."

A number of treatments have been implemented on the basis of "observational data", such as the use of blood thinners based upon Observations made at NY Mt. Sinai Hospital.

Docs be like ...
"We've Observed such & such treatment to be effective against a Pandemic Virus. We must arrange controlled clinical trials before implementing the treatment." ... NOT scold

Think, people. THINK!!
frustrated

cowboy
Well if you have arthritis you might get an added benefit from taking it.

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) is considered a disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drug (DMARD). It can decrease the pain and swelling of arthritis. It may prevent joint damage and reduce the risk of long-term disability. Hydroxychloroquine is in a class of medications that was first used to prevent and treat malaria.
Given that it was not only reported by CNN but The Wall Street Journal - it just has to be true!
watch the Naysayers crawl out the Woodwork in 3...............2................1 BOOM!laugh
It's a bit of good news so of course the naysayers should be here soon. You'll never see an apology Soon. Doom and gloomers don't apologize for anything ever
In order to do a controlled clinical trial to test the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19, you need people infected with COVID-19, right?

You could used hydroxychloroquine alone to treat every infected person based upon this study alone, but that would exclude other treatment regimes which may be effective, more effective, less dangerous in terms of cardiac complications leading to mortality, or the nuances of when and how to use it.

Steroid treatment has also been found to be effective, but this study would suggest that it's not.

Which treatment regime are you going to choose for everyone based upon the current data and without tailoring your research methodology to see if it actually works?

Whether you say eeny meeny miny mo to pick a treatment for everyone, or do clinical trials, it's going to be the wrong treatment for some people, just as some people died before lying patients face down, or using unpressurised ventilation was found to be more effective.
ashlander
just as some people died before lying patients face down, or using unpressurised ventilation was found to be more effective.
help
confused
What do you need help with, Ash?
JAC, just tell the Trumpies to go inject clorox.laugh
ashlander
Could you be a bit specific about either, thanks.thumbs up
ashlander
Anyone that could shed a little more light on these two parts...thumbs up
HCQ had decades of safe use. Sadly, such is Trump Derangement Syndrome, some just couldn't help determining to discredit it, truth be damned. Lives may have been lost as a result.
well,certain People and Organizations wouldn't be able to make a killing,owing to the fact that hydroxychloroqine is a Generic,while the Drug touted by Gates,Fauci,WHO and Gilead is proprietary and will run into thousands of $$.
Good point Conrad.
thumbs up



Covid-19 Drug Remdesivir to Cost $3,120 for Typical Patient
Conflicts of interest shouldn't be allowed. You have politicians funded by pharmaceutical companies and then you have people involved in trials intrinsically linked to the companies. People are rightly suspicious. I believe everything will come out in the end. A reckoning.
Covid-19 is a novel virus, so when it hit there was little understanding about how it would behave.

It meant that when it caused devastating illness on a pandemic scale, health services were having to wing it in terms of treatment.

As I understand it, the conventional approach to severe respiratory disease is to ventilate patients under pressure, so oxygen is forced into the lungs. It was found that the high pressure appeared to be damaging already damaged lungs increasing the mortality rate.

Ventilating patients at normal pressure, or when possible providing oxygen without intubation, appeared to reduce lung damage and increase survival rates. Positioning patients face down also appeared to increase survival rates which I'm guessing is to do with reducing the build up of fluid in the lungs.

I wasn't tested, but I had mild symptoms of Covid-19. I normally sleep in the recovery position, but found myself automatically sleeping fully on my front to relieve the discomfort. I woke up on the morning of day 3, or 4, coughed up watery fluid and the severe chest/back pain started to dissipate. I'm not sure I would have had such an easy ride had I not slept on my front.
Darn ! Darn ! I was hoping Trump would be right about something, anything, for the first time in his life.
This is so disappointing. moping
You poor poor Trumpettes. hug It must feel horrible being so devoted to an idiot, who is wrong all the time.
Ken_19
er, actually the drug made no difference regarding life or death under Covid19. So Trump was wrong. Possibly his recent pronouncement that Covid19 will fade away in a few weeks will also be 1,000% wrong. How surprising, NOT!
professor
Most clinical trials of this drug have been halted showing the treatment does no harm, but provides no benefit in treating covid. The FDA revoked permission to treat COVID-19 with hydroxychloroquine as recently as june 15th. frustrated
Here is one example of why we should all be hoping a drug like hydroxychloroquine really does work, besides the fact it has been safely used for 60-years.


I was under the impression Trump said hydroxychloroquine looked promising in treatment of COVID. I'm not understanding how some of you think this study disproves that. confused

With all the money that stands to be made on newly patented COVID medicines......by hiring some psuedo-scientists to do your research....you can pretty much get any results you want. Sounds like you can take the money and run long before any real proof is required. sigh
This is probably a good time to revisit Trump's original statements on hydroxychlooquine just to refresh some memories. One thing is certain......the fact that Trump hyped it.......sure made a lot of people root against its success. That pitiful IMO.
Let me repeat what was just said earlier by several people!doh
seniorgal4u•20 hrs ago•Rutland, Vermont USA
1.The FDA recently (June 15th) "revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19."Ken_19•7 hrs ago•Winchester, Virginia USA
er, actually the drug made no difference regarding life or death under Covid19. So Trump was wrong. 2)Possibly his recent pronouncement that Covid19 will fade away in a few weeks will also be 1,000% wrong. How surprising, NOT!
3)seniorgal4uonline today!
seniorgal4u•55 mins ago•Rutland, Vermont USA
Most clinical trials of this drug have been halted showing the treatment does no harm, but provides no benefit in treating covid. The FDA revoked permission to treat COVID-19 with hydroxychloroquine as recently as june 15th
****************************************************************
SOON YOUR LAST POSTS DONT MAKE ANY SENSE!??::::online today!
SoonyuleknowOP•18 mins ago•Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico
Here is one example of why we should all be hoping a drug like hydroxychloroquine really does work, besides the fact it has been safely used for 60-years.



I was under the impression Trump said hydroxychloroquine looked promising in treatment of COVID. I'm not understanding how some of you think this study disproves that. confused

With all the money that stands to be made on newly patented COVID medicines......by hiring some psuedo-scientists to do your research....you can pretty much get any results you want. Sounds like you can take the money and run long before any real proof is required.
Rap go back a few posts and read what Conrad said. It is in the financial interests of a lot people to see to it that a recently patented drugs gains widespread acceptance, regardless of how effective it is. That link above shows one such company who stands to gain and who has already cashed in without all the proof that is being required from hydroxychloroquine. Use the damn link.....educate yourself for God's sake.
OK, SYK. We must view clinical evidence, as with judgment on stateshumans, and other pioneering life curiosities, within temporal, historical and cultural contexts. Sure, Hitler would be a creep whenever, but most fair-minded folks get it. Same with Freud, and I dare say, Mr. Trump.
The baffling aspect of C-19 is its novelty, while resting on the laurels of genus relationships to a gaggle of cousins, about which we know a bunch already. It caught many clinicians and scientists with pants below their knees. Add growing evidence for considerable uniqueness, and lethal sub syndromes in kids, and we see the "OMG---what to do now?" political and scientific heavy-handedness. Lock-downs for all, loading care homes up with serologically positive protovictims, the many Dr. Fauci on again/off agains, and so on.
There is evidence for Hc's small positive effects on the course, and less so the survival, of infected victim patients. And this within the background of low cost, decades of safe use in malaria and the arthriditides, , and a well understood side effect profile. of this antiparasitic/antiinflammatory, medicine..
So, Nurses and Doctors treating these folks in these circumstances, will reach for heuristic therapies, often based on anecdotal evidence, biological plausability, garandmother's dreams, etc., initially. Enter H- chloroquine, Dexamethasone, prostrate bed positioning, weeks of ventilator use, and much more. There is evidence for each, but each has limits in efficacy. If one pill is good, two may be better. So we see treatments evolve.
As to the foundations of evidence, that hottie,VERY hottie, J's info is necessarily correct, but only partially sufficient. The well constructed, carried out and analysed clinical trial will be based on her points, and on much more, as I've posted. In particular, things such as optimized power (sample size, restricted entrance to study arms, crossover protocols) on starting things, to care taken about possible confounders, effect modifiers, dose response issues, etc. as things progress. And much more. Yet, even after all this,enters into play, the issue of generalizability of results, often the backside of restrictions to patient participation--- raises her formidable head. Which is why the results of any research must be vetted in terms of other results, biological general knowledge, etc.
And we must not be too hard on observational data. In some fields, such as Behavioral Health, we usually have little more. And recall the methods of Sir Richard Doll's pioneering epidemiological work on cigarettes, and lung diseases, not least cancer.
Finally, as with much of health, public health prevention usually TRUMPS therapeutics. Just consider the marked increased in human longevity, over the centuries. And as always, don't just take my words for it.
The art is long.
Soon is concerned about excess profits which lead to ruinous competition......... except in pharmaceuticals.
If his concern was real he would of had a nervous break down decades ago.
What's missing is any double blind study that proves hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. Just because Ken says it doesn't save lives is not conclusive proof. This study came after the FDA revoked the EUA. The authors of this study seem to think that giving hydroxychloroquine early enough may yield better results. Definitely sounds like it may still be useful when it is further tested and tweaked.


Here is the official statement senorgal refered to. If it is based on emerging data their conclusions and temporary are and subject to change.
June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met. Please refer to the Revocation of the EUA Letter and FAQs on the Revocation of the EUA for Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate and Chloroquine Phosphate for more information.
V it's certainly good to have your input. Do you know the difference between atovaquone/proguanil and hydroxychloroquine?
@Soon- is that a surprise joke?
Seung-Yul Noh, professional golfer just eagled the 1st in Detroit. head banger
You're the joke rap, to the surprise of no one rolling on the floor laughing
ashlander
@Jac,
Thank you, that was exactly what information I needed .
The medical treatment in hospitals compared against personal experiences with untested persons.
thumbs up
Here is an interesting article about hdc back in April when people were dropping like flies in New York and New Jersey nursing home. You can say it is just anecdotal evidence but it is interesting none the less. While it may be difficult to say hdc was what saved so many lives, it sure looks like taking it did no harm. 99 patients and staff tested positive. They took hydroxychloroquine very early and 98 out of 99 recovered.





FOX 26 gets unprecedented access to Texas' 1st nursing home to treat COVID-19 with Hydroxychloroquine
By Randy WallacePublished April 27FOX 26 Houston

Dr. Armstrong and others at the Resort at Texas City Nursing home knew time wasn't on their side.

"Two of our residents had symptoms and that's when we tested everybody," said nursing home Executive Director Jan Piveral.

56 residents and 33 staff members were COVID-19 positive.


"Our Goal was to make sure we could shelter them in place so we don't spread it to other people," Armstrong said. "Then also at the same time treat them so they would get better."

Armstrong says he knew residents who ended up in the hospital had a higher mortality rate.

"Our goal was to keep them here and treat them with the medications we had available," he said.

When Armstrong began administering Hydroxychloroquine to it was controversial but appeared promising.

MORE: COVID-19 patients from Texas City testing hydroxychloroquine treatment

"If we didn't make the decision quickly then we could potentially lose 15 to 20% of the residents which was not an option," said the Doctor.

Armstrong's approach was to begin administering Hydroxychloroquine a Zpac and Zinc just as soon as a resident first started showing symptoms.

The patients were being monitored daily.

"We did EKGs on each of these patients to make sure they didn't have the cardiac side effects that everyone talks about," Armstrong said. "None of our patients did."

Armstrong doesn't call the Hydroxychloroquine a cure and is aware of all the recent reports that say the drug shouldn't be used to treat COVID-19.

But he points out only one of the nursing homes COVID-19 patients has died.

"Everyone who got on treatment who started on treatment is actually doing really well," he said.

EXCLUSIVE: Texas City nursing home resident taking experimental COVID-19 treatment speaks

"I'm so glad that I've got the paper that I'm not positive anymore," said Helen Parrish one of the residents who took the Hydroxychloroquine.

When COVID-19 was creating havoc at the nursing homeowner John Griffin says only two people quit.

"99 percent of the staff stayed we had 34 employees that contracted Coronavirus all lived and 98% are back at work right now," Griffin said.

Whether it was God's will or Hydroxychloroquine Dr. Armstrong can't say exactly what it was that kept so many residents alive through this pandemic.

He says all he know is he had to make a decision fast and he has no regrets.

"It was a situation set up to end very badly," Armstrong said. "I thought we didn't have any other options."
The report on the study doesn't disprove the usefulness hydroxychoroquine as a treatment for Covid-19, but it's not definitive enough to demonstrate a causal link between that particular treatment and recovery.

This study is a stepping stone towards evolving experimental treatment regimes and further research.

There is simply not enough to suggest that hydroxychloroquine is 'promising' as Trump suggested some time ago. It suggests possibility which may, or may not come to fruition.

It may be that early treatment is key to it's usefulness, but then you run into the problem of potential side effects. As time goes on it appears that Covid-19 isn't just a respiratory disease, but can compromise other organs. Is it safe to administer this treatment early on to non-supervised patients who are self-isolating? If patients need to be monitored, is waiting until people are hospitalised too late?
Well you are right Jac. I think we all know how Trump exaggerates stuff to put a positive spin on things. But selling hope is what we have come to expect from our leaders.

I don't think the side effects are very risky for most people. When I went to Ecuador a couple years ago I decided to visit a travel doctor and see what he recommended.So he recommended Hep A vaccine, Hep B vaccine, typhoid vaccine, and hdc for malaria. He just wrote the scripts and all were easy to get ...but the vaccines were all really expensive. The hdc was fairly cheap. Medicare didn't cover the costs of any of it. So he didn't really do anything besides maybe checking my BP. I decided not to take the hdc because I nixed my trip to jungle and stayed in the high country where there were no mosquitos. It's just odd that something is so easy to get as a malaria preventative, but so hard to get as a COVID cure. dunno But I still have the hdc and I wouldn't be afraid to take it if I thought I had COVID.
So, lets look at HCQ through a different lens.. (we know it works with negligible side effects).

2018 the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman in Toronto. Barry was the founder of Apotex Pharmaceuticals and a very large source for the manufacture of HCQ. Scientific data has shown that the Wuhan virus is man made. So, this has been in the working stages for a very long time, but the virus developer (not of PC's) have known that HCQ is an exceptional remedy to the Wuhan virus.

When it's too obvious it must be the truth.....why are all these ppl discounting the drugs effectiveness? Never in my life have I seen a workable solution to a virus be ostracized to a level beyond comprehension. Makes me think of a bigger agenda....

And then you have the leftest mob jumping all over the use of this medication. Makes me think of a bigger agenda.

Fact: China is the “kingpin” of the dissemination of the Coronavirus throughout the world, including within Canada. Barry Sherman’s Apotex was an early adopter of an anti- Coronavirus antidote, potentially worth tens of billions of dollars.

When facts, logic and reason don't resonate......Makes me think of a bigger agenda..



What symptoms of Covid-19 are you planning on having?

From what I've read it's not just a respiratory disease as first thought. It can affect any, or all internal organs, blood clotting seems to be a prominent issue, some people are experiencing neurological symptoms; it can be mild, severe, or for some people it seems to be chronic with symptoms coming and going long after they test negative. Post viral chronic fatigue and permanent damage may also be an issue.

How does hydroxychloroquine interact with all those different scenarios?
Well Jac I don't really plan on getting COVID. but if I develop a cough, a fever, and I'm losing my sense of smell/taste I might give it a shot. Especially if all the hospitals are full.
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