Judas Iscariot and Free Will
During the recent Easter season, there was a focus on the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ.According to the Biblical account, Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot.
Jesus, who is also God, (being part of the Godhead or Trinity), knew beforehand that Judas would betray him.
God is said to be infallible, that is, he can never be wrong or mistaken.
To have free will, one must be free to do how one chooses.
Judas was not free to avoid betraying Jesus. If he did not betray Jesus, then it would mean that God was mistaken.
But God is infallible and can never be mistaken.
Therefore, in the context of God's infallibility, Judas did not have free will in the matter.
What do you think?
(I look forward to any relevant comments, criticisms, etc.)
Comments (54)
And could it be that Judas was manpulated,
not having free will?
Revelation 21:14 KJV
So...who is the twelfth apostle?
Matthias?...who was elected by the others to replace Judas. His only mention in the Bible was that he was "elected" - by men - to fill the office of an apostle. And that before Pentecost, when the Spirit was given to the Church.
Paul? Perhaps. He would seem a more likely possibility than Mathias.
Or is Judas - one of the twelve chosen by Jesus - restored to his office of apostle; his act of "betrayal" being a necessary part of the redemption. Which was God's plan, and no "mistake" was made.
Oedipus Rex...Antigone.
Predestination (Calvinism) vs. Free Will...
A Presbyterian was driving his wagon along a road and meets a Quaker driving his wagon in the opposite direction. As they approach one another, the Presbyterian shouts, "You see, Quaker, it was fore-ordained that we pass one another on this road today!"
The Quaker shouts back, "If that is the case...we won't!"
And he turns his wagon around.
(And yes...I know that's not the meaning predestination in Calvinist theology. That's just the way the joke goes...live with it!
A Presbyterian was driving his wagon along a road and meets a Quaker driving his wagon in the opposite direction. As they approach one another, the Presbyterian shouts, "You see, Quaker, it was fore-ordained that we pass one another on this road today!"
The Quaker shouts back, "If that is the case...we won't!"
And he turns his wagon around.
..................................................... ....
Could it be that he got sukkerd and was played ?
And those were the questions those Ancient Greek playwrights were grappling with...as we on this blog are doing today.
I would seem a definitive answer that would finally settle the matter is quite elusive, would it not?
Another possibility -
Do some of us have free will and lead self-determined autonomous lives?...
And others of us are consigned to live a life pre-determined to the smallest detail?
If so, which life course is preferable over the other?
If we allow omnipotency and all knowing in God, then all of the character flaws in Judas were planned from the get go (along with the events creating them) and everything about Jesus being crucified was also planned (aka staged for us) and completely dependent on Judas doing the betrayal. In short, God knew of the flaws and played the probabilities of Judas acting bad at the appropriate time.
Another option of course was God seized control of Judas and ran him like a puppet which of course also means Judas had no free will or choice about doing control of the betrayal. Released, Judas quite naturally killed himself being filled with horror both at what he had done and also his inability (since he was being controlled) to prevent it from happening.
Either way, had Judas not betrayed The Man, then there would have been no miracle to rave about, and we would not know of The Man, so the crucifixion was essential to happen.
So where does this leave us? Simply that everyone has free will, except when the Puppet Master doesn't wish them to.
The betrayal was prophesied in the Old Testament.
By fulfilling his part of the prophecy, might it not be said he actually did well...as Jesus is thought of as having done well fulfilling His part in prophecy?
Would Judas have "done well" by NOT fulfilling the prophecy, assuming he had the free will to be able to do so?
Again, where does that leave the rest of us?
The Old Testament prophecy against Tyre was fulfilled by the actions of Alexander the Great.
When Alexander was fulfilling that prophecy, was he exercising his own free will...or was he being manipulated by the "Puppet Master"?
Why then do people still see him as the bad guy ?
However, if we publicly recognize that Judas was played or controlled, then of course we must also confront the possibility it was all a show, or maybe it never even happened. A lot of folks do not want to do that for a variety of reasons. Much simpler for them to accept Jedas was bad.
In response to your comment about The Gospel of Judas, I found an interesting article by National Geographic on it, which I am posting as the next comment.
Good Topic!
So! I'm just going to sit back and read....
miclee
ekself
ken
Thanks for your comments.
This raises the question:
Should Judas be held accountable for his actions since he could not do otherwise because God knew beforehand that he would act in such a manner and God is infallible and can never be mistaken?
I am still awaiting comments from those who may not agree with the position stated in this blog.
Please give us your comments.
So! How can one prove that! It's just a story?....
the Bible seems to be questionable, the "what, who, how, why and when" are endless...
We have here a goog example with the gospel of Judas
How many of use are condition into beliving that Judas is the bad guy..
Better still why some people dont talk about The Gospel Of Judas.
I am not a person who into beliving , I want to know.
Believing Is A Choice, one makes. Imo....
Interesting topic.
To have free will, one must be free to do how one chooses.
Judas was not free to avoid betraying Jesus. If he did not betray Jesus, then it would mean that God was mistaken.
But God is infallible and can never be mistaken.
Therefore, in the context of God's infallibility, Judas did not have free will in the matter.
I humbly disagree with the premise, that Judas was not free to betray Christ.
Since it is not contradictory to affirm that, God knows for sure (with infallible knowledge), how we will use our freedom. Consider the following:
God knows all things
Whatever God foreknows must come to pass (i.e. is determined). If it did not come to pass, then God would have been wrong in what He foreknew. But an all-knowing Being cannot be wrong in what He knows.
God knew Judas would betray Christ.
Therefore, it had to come to pass (i.e., was determined) that Judas would betray Christ.
If God has infallible knowledge of future free acts, then the future is completely determined. But what does not follow from this is that...Judas was not free to betray (or not to betray ) Christ.
This is because there is no contradiction in claiming that God knew for sure (i.e. determined) that Judas would freely (i.e. with free choice) betray Christ.
What is contradictory to affirm and the Bible never affirms it, is the following statement: Judas was coerced to betray Christ freely.
One and the same act cannot be both forced and free at the same time and in the same sense. For coerced acts are not free acts, as it is clear from both the Bible and good reason. The Bible uses terms like "no constraint" and authority over own will" (Cor.7:37) or "not under compulsion" but "voluntarily" (1 Peter 5:2; 1 Cor. 9:17).
God bless, my friend!
Welcome to my blog!
You wrote:
"...God knew for sure (i.e. determined) that Judas wouldfreely (i.e. with free choice) betray Christ."
Are you saying that Judas acted freely or voluntarily, that is, he could have chosen to betray or not to betray Jesus but he chose to betray him?
In other words, that he acted of his own free will, even though God knew beforehand that he would betray Jesus, and what God knows can never be wrong since he is infallible.
If you say that God knows for sure that someone would act freely, does that mean that even God himself does not know what that person would do, or which choice he would make?
If that is the case, then God would not be omniscient and infallible as he is supposed to be, (that is, that he knows everything that will happen even before they take place and he can never be mistaken).
How can an onniscient, infallible God not know what action a human being would take if he is supposed to know everything beforehand and he can never be mistaken?
Considering the circumstances involved, if Judas is not held accountable, then who should be held accountable?
That is the Question?
And if Yuz Asaf was Jesus it seems like he had tomb in Kashmir has well.
Do you agree that God is omniscient and infallible?
If you do, then God knows everything, past, present and future.
He knows exactly what will happen in the future, even before it happens.
If God is infallible, then he can never be wrong or mistaken.
According to the Bible, Jesus(God) knew that Judas would betray him even before it actually happened.
In the context of God's omniscience and infallibility, Judas could not have avoided betraying Jesus because God knew beforehand that it would happen and God can never be wrong or mistaken so Judas could not have done otherwise.
This is despite the negative picture you have painted of Judas's past, which may be true. However, that has no relation to the situation I have pointed out above which concerns the actual act of the betrayal itself in the context of God's omniscience and infallibility.
I wrote your name between quotation-marks, because, as far as I know (I am Greek), you have NOTHING in common with Socrates, NOTHING!
I understand that you are not at all a responsible person, as you give this kind of impression to your readers. You know nothing correctly about Philosophy and absolutely nothing about Theology or Anthropology. What ever you write, you do it for your self and how to destroy the peoples way of thinking. You do not know-I am sure-the real meaning of the word "Freedom".
Freedom is a gift to every person; it is a power of the soul. Freedom it means that you can think about anything you like, judge, decide if you like it or not, and discuss with your inner self (logos) if it is good for you. If you reach this point and you are satisfied with everything you did, it becomes your will for better or worse and the you act.
So whatever you decide, it is on you, only on you. God respects your freedom and will. He never changes your will that is a resault of your freedom.He does help everybody to change their bad way of thinking and their way of living, WITHOUT changing anybody's freedom or will.
This is the reason that we are responsible for our actions and we may be taken to Prison. Has anybody seen an animal in Prison? Of course not. Because animals have not freedom or Will. They have only instict.
Regarding Judas, he had freedom and will indeed, but as all people, he had a very bad disadvantage. The last is called avaricious. He delivered all his freedom and will to this disadvantage. From that moment, he was thinking with his mind how to get more money; with his heart he wanted his Master and with his feelings how to sell Jesus. Persons like him are not normal, as it is not a married man that with his mind thinks about Sylvia, with his heart wants his wife and with his feelings loves Judy. Judas loved money much more than his Master, Jesus. This is the reason that he became a betrayer for money and not for something else i.e. a promotion in the synagogue. Neither most of us realize that we deliver our freedom and our will to our feelings and the last-afterwards-control us.
Jesus tried very hard to make him to repent. At the same time Jesus was respecting judas' freedom and will. So, Judas did what his feelings were asking him to do. After Jesus was on the Cross, he did repent BUT confessed to wrong people and not to Jesus. After that judas went under a treet to hang himself. Then God lowered the branch of the tree in order to save him, but Judas "closed" his knees, because wanted to die and be in Hell before Christ went there, because he knew that Jesus would go to Hell and would take all the "prisoners" repented, whilst Judas could not repent and he remained in Hell, not because he betrayed Jesus, not because he SOLD Jesus, but because he had to do what his feelings were ordering him to do and he NEVER repent in humility and NEVER confessed to God. God is LOVE and wants our salvation much more than we want, if we want it.
Dear "Socrates" please try not to destroy peoples' way of thinking and their way of living. Perhaps you are an atheist, but nobody has given you the right to make people to be like you. We ignore that we do not only exist as humans, but our self is continuously altering for better or worse and that all the powers of soul: mind, intelligence, intellect, will, opinion, intention, memory, memorandum, freedom, freewill, imagination, option, desire, intellect, meditation, mind, heart must be changed; otherwise we remain at least ignorant of the real life and far off the completion.
I would suggest you to be a real responsible person and to respect people's faith and to use the right bibliography, whenever you write something.
Thank you for your very lengthy comment.
Please allow me to reproduce a part of my response to Sista Callie's comment to which I would like to get your response:
Do you agree that God is omniscient and infallible?
If you do, then God knows everything, past, present and future.
He knows exactly what will happen in the future, even before it happens.
If God is infallible, then he can never be wrong or mistaken.
According to the Bible, Jesus(God) knew that Judas would betray him even before it actually happened.
In the context of God's omniscience and infallibility, Judas could not have avoided betraying Jesus because God knew beforehand that it would happen and God can never be wrong or mistaken so Judas could not have done otherwise.
This is despite the negative picture you have painted of Judas's past, which may be true. However, that has no relation to the situation I have pointed out above which concerns the actual act of the betrayal itself in the context of God's omniscience and infallibility.
Do you agree or disagree with the above?
I wish to state that I respect people's faith and I certainly am not trying to destroy their way of thinking and their way of living.
Please read again peacefully my comments. Thank you.
Blog on!!...
ken
I would give you my answer to your question, if you told me how do you know that there were no witnesses and what do you accept as "witnesses".
I understand the reason that you do not know, but you gave me the impression that you are a man searching the Truth. I like your way of thinking, and if you ever visit Greece, I invite you to stay at my home for as long as you want, because in my home library there are more than 1.800 books. Leave the rest
I know you donot need my affirmation, as you are a humble and very good person in your personal life [which I too, know something about].
With regard our 'learned' friend from Greece.
Your invitation to your home in Greece and your profession of how many books you have in your Library, tells me alot about your Ego. Where there is Ego, there cannot be logical discussion.
Talking about the word "beforehand" here I would like to raise my humble opinion, while that English is not my native language, but far as I understand the "beforehand" does not mean "anything it was programmed " or " imposed for one would have to do something ". It is simple for me to understand the "beforehand" has means "the foreknowledge" or "seen before".
About Judas, we cannot fully understand about, but certainly God never intended use anyone used to sacrifice for his program. God loves all people and wants everyone to live a good and happy, He also respect the freedom of every person. God does not force anyone into heaven, nor appoint anyone to hell. We are convinced that human beings are not hinder God's redemptive plan. But he will complete his program through the weakness and incompleteness of us. Suppose if Judas did not sell God, God's plan of redemption of humanity has still to be completed.
Judas had his freedom, as greedy for money so he sold Jesus. Suppose if Judas did not sell Jesus. By any way, Jesus still was arrested. And in the Bible, other events that replaces the events of Judas.
Furthermore, about Judas, we also do not know how he now, because we do not know anything about his final moments. The only thing we can know that Jesus did love him so He has to bow washing his feet, too.
Jesus sat down lower than Judas, to wash his feet, that showed us the humility and great love that Jesus gave Judas. (Though Jesus knew Judas would betray Him). It is also a chance that He gave Judas to change his minds, but Judas did not. (can be understood as Omonoountes said, "Then God lowered the branch of the tree in order to save him, but Judas" closed "his knees,"). JMHO
Thanks for your comment.
I see that you are posting quite a few blogs relating to your faith as a Christian. I honestly believe that your faith has provided you with a sense of security and meaning in life, and I am very happy for you.
I appreciate your comment about God loving everyone, etc. You have also painted a very negative picture of Judas as some others have done, which I suppose is based on what is stated in the gospels.
However, I would like to get your response to the same questions I put to SistaCallie:
Do you agree that God is omniscient and infallible?
If you do, then God knows everything, past, present and future.
He knows exactly what will happen in the future, even before it happens.
If God is infallible, then he can never be wrong or mistaken.
According to the Bible, Jesus(God) knew that Judas would betray him even before it actually happened.
In the context of God's omniscience and infallibility, Judas could not have avoided betraying Jesus because God knew beforehand that it would happen and God can never be wrong or mistaken so Judas could not have done otherwise.
This is despite the negative picture you have painted of Judas's past, which may be true. However, that has no relation to the situation I have pointed out above which concerns the actual act of the betrayal itself in the context of God's omniscience and infallibility.
(Yes, "beforehand" means "foreknowledge)
Do you agree or disagree with the above?
I respect your faith and I am happy for you, in view of the sense of security and meaning which, I believe, it has brought into your life.
Once again, thanks for commenting on the blog.
I sincerely respect your Christian faith and I really appreciate your input.
You wrote:
“Yes, I am saying that Judas acted freely in his decision to betray Christ, and God who is all knowing, knew from eternity, how Judas would use his freedom. Had Judas used his freedom to "not" betray Christ (or betray Christ and freely decide to repent), that too, God would have alsoforesaw. However, since this wasn't the case, Judas instead, decided to freely betray Christ...”
If Judas had freedom in his actions, and God knew from eternity, how Judas would use that freedom, as you are saying, and God can never be wrong, is that really freedom?
What kind of freedom is that, since ultimately, God's foreknowledge would prevail anyway, despite what Judas may have thought or felt?
As you would love to learn of God, so I would prefer to wait until the time you'll finished reading the entire Bible all (I means that "do not miss any of the words" in all the pages from the first page to the last page of every book of the Bible Books set). Then, if you still want to raise again the questions you want to ask, when that time we'll talk more easily, please!
P.S: Tonight, I stay up late until past midnight is for your benefit, it's 12 33 AM here. :)
You gave me the impression that you did give a good try, but without studying those that were full of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to understand for example the Holy Bible by reading it, as any other book.
Your intention is good, but not enough. As a young man you are, it is necessary, as for everybody else that is willing, to study the whole Bible with all the scriputers and not parts of them.
Please read few times my comments above. God bless you and remember in the rest of your life that Jesus want to help every single person or atom to want to be saved by Him and nobody else.
We, The Orthodox Christians, celebrate Easter this coming night-all night. Christ is risen. He is risen indeed. Happy Easter to every-one
After all the world is not flat
Walk good my friend
I have read the entire New Testament. I am quite familiar with what it says about Judas and his betrayal of Jesus.
You are asking me to read the entire Bible before you will deal with the questions I asked. That is a formidable task and I do not see the significance of that in this matter. I would be happy to view selected relevant parts that you may recommend.
However, please note, as I pointed out, the position stated in this blog is based on the actual act of the betrayal of Jesus by Judas itself in the context of God's omniscience and infallibility.
Once again, I wish to say that I respect your faith and I am happy for you, in view of the sense of security and meaning which, I believe, it has brought into your life.