Forgiveness & Forgetness

Sundays always have been kind of philosophical for me. As loneliness & solitude is a constant in my life I used to take this day for writing most of my weekly thoughts...

A couple of weeks ago I promoted a discussion about this subject in a group I belong to.

It seems I´m not complete satisfied with my thoughts and feedback I got from them, so I bring it to you now:

Why do we need to forgive people? I do not, of course!, hence my concern grin I forget, undertand, move on, lose interest, stop giving my attention and time but ....I do not forgive, why should I? if they hurt me, ok, thats who they are, what they brought to our table ( None of us change others, we change ourselves...we grow up from introspection and interaction) in any case, once I know why they did it, I simple reorganize my "feelings" and change my participation in our relationship. Not interested anymore ....and It doesn´t mean I do not love or appreciate that person.... it's like, a lack of potentiality? zero chances to reach uper levels? different frecuencies? not fair and productive interaction for me any more? ...dunno

Your thoughts -if you have any or want to share- would be read with interest. Have a nice sunday folks joy
Bar will remain open bartender
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Comments (62)

Elegsabiff
You SURE you're a Taurus, not a Scorpio? Very much a Scorpio trait to cut off forever so I do identify. laugh
Crunia
LOL! I do not believe in zodiac ....but I was raised by 2 scorpios if that counts laugh
daniela777
Speak for yourself Biff! scold

I ALWAYS forgive and do not bear grudges.

"Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die!"
Crunia
Wait Daniela, I agree about unforgiveness.....ok ....but this is because the need to forgive exist. I´m sure Biff did a funny comment to do not get into deep waters (which I totally understand) ....

I do not forgive because I do not see the need to forgive anything....there is nothing to be forgive.
People love and people hurt...
That´s same scenary about love:

* Why do you love me?
* Oh because you love me !

Nahhhh I love you because who you are ....love who ever you want!
Ha! It would be fun if I´ll love anyone who loves me! ....

Do you get it?
Crunia
Now ...unless someone comes here to take my laundry from upstairs for me, I must go...
It´s such a funny thing my real name means "housewife" ....what a joke! wave
Elegsabiff
Daniela I think you may be confusing 'closing the door' with 'holding a grudge'.

I don't hold grudges.

If someone has done something which ends any relationship we could ever have had, I walk away without a backward glance. I don't fret about it.

If, on the other hand, they do something which changes our interaction, and I am happy to continue with the new interaction, I adapt. It is as it is.
Deedee123x
Forgiveness is for me not them.
It doesnt change what they did.it doesnt rewrite history.

It simply is an act to release the pain of it within yourself sou can move on

Byw you can forgive someone without actually saying the words ' i forgive you' to them.

Some id sooner stab in the eye quite frankly.
grin grin
Crunia
Ok Biff handshake that´s exactly how I see it. Yeap, also the last part of your comment since I believe in personal upgrades lol! ...we can always get better and learn.
May I ask you something?
(no need to tell why I´m not writing anything in your blog, right? ...few things can be much frustrating than repress my need to tell a story due to lack of words)
daniela777
Deedee..

"Forgiveness is for me not them.
It doesnt change what they did.it doesnt rewrite history.
It simply is an act to release the pain of it within yourself sou can move on
Byw you can forgive someone without actually saying the words ' i forgive you' to them"

I agree with your statement, Forgiveness is for US, as it doesn´t really make any difference to the other person.
And, as you say, you can forgive a person without saying it to them, personally. They don´t have to be present. .thumbs up

I practise Ho´oponopono on a regular basis. - not only for people, but for situations.


Biff.... No, I am not confusing the two - bearing grudges with someone means you haven´t forgiven them! in my book and other books!
Elegsabiff
Sure, ask.

And adding to the story can just be a single sentence, to change the direction, the feel, add humour, add tension ... laugh
Crunia
Most of the people I´ve asked gave me that answer Dee...sice they are people I do not know (not that I know you but have had more contact due to CS) ...I "think" I understand, but not sure, need help on it:

You need to forgive them because "understanding" why they need is not enough to delete and rewind, in order to release and move on without grudges? confused
Crunia
@Biff ...add tension lol! you know how to get me, don´t you? ...I´ll be there.

Question: does your mind protect your heart? any potential relationship has to go through mind filter first to reach heart zone?
Elegsabiff
Daniela, again, I don't bear grudges. You're confusing me. confused

Some unscrupulous vets effectively killed my much-loved dog many years ago. I'm not about to forgive them. Ever. I did their reputation as much harm as I could, sent proof of what they had done to the Veterinary society, and that wiped the board clean.

It's the only example I can think of off-hand where I could still be bearing a grudge, and I don't. I got what revenge I could. I'm sure you would have forgiven their greed and subsequent incompetence because what does a dog's life matter, but I would remind you we are different people and, since you are taking a light-hearted Scorpio comment very personally, I also remind you there are several types of Scorpio, I suspect we are different types.

handshake
Elegsabiff
"Question: does your mind protect your heart? any potential relationship has to go through mind filter first to reach heart zone?"

It should, it really should, but that whoomph! as the heart lights the gas is so rare, the brain just has to tag along protesting feebly.

sigh

I do tend to let what happens, happen, and on the whole things have worked out for the best, even though sometimes hindsight is needed to really understand the benefit laugh
Crunia
Rubia, please elaborate what you said about books....I swear to you I don´t see it either....
There was a time I felt very bad about this because I felt like I was "selecting" people, which was not ...but it´s like filters or levels, some simple don´t pass it (and I do not pass it from others, I´m sure about that) ...but still can´t see why do I need to forgive someone who came to drop sh*it in my garden??? I collect that sh*it , put in the basket and get dress to next interaction, if it happens.

Acceptance/ understanding works better than forgiveness for me dunno
Crunia
Yeah...I think my brain has so many muscles and my poor heart don´t even try to open its mouth! lol. Thanks Biff.

To keep grudges and feed revenge ....that would be stupid and a bad decission, that person not only didn´t make me happy but also left me badly entertained after her/his departure? nahhh that would mean I give more power to her than to me scold Absurd!
Krinka
I cannot forgive someone because I want to. Forgiveness is something that happens inside of me during time and I cannot speed up the process. The feeling of 'being hurt' simply starts to disappear over time and when I finally see someone who hurt me as just another imperfect human being - that usually means that 'forgiveness happened'. Sometimes it takes hours, but sometimes even years. It depends. Each case is different.

For me 'forgiving' means just 'releasing the feelings of being hurt'. It doesn't mean that I will return to the relationship as if nothing happened. I might - with different perspective and behaviour. Or I might not. Again - it depends on many factors.
1one1
Why do we forgive? Why do we do anything at all? I'm definitely a cynic. It is my understanding that there always is a selfish motive behind any human action or emotion under normal circumstances. Sometimes, that might not be entirely obvious. A mum giving her life for that of her kids, for instance. Where's the selfishness in that? Well, it could be "instinctual selfishness". She's instinctively protecting HER VERY OWN genetic legacy which is selfish in many ways I would think. That is probably the purpose of the much reverie maternal instinct after all. Same argument applies to forgiveness. We forgive to feel better ourselves. To close a chapter. Indeed, as a side effect we might make others feel better about themselves and their transgressions towards us but that's far from the primary motive imo.

As for myself, most of the time I just can't be arsed to even feel bad about it these days if it's a matter of relationships. I know very well that human-human interactions are not to be taken too seriously.
IncubusBaig
Ok.. I rarely talk about religion here (if at all). Forgiveness for me is very simple when put into the proper perspective.. and that perspective for me has evolved through religion. The philosophy being:



I do not wish to turn this blog into a religious debate.. just presenting my perspective.. tip hat
MiMiArt
I forgive and forget easily coz I’m the wrongdoer most times? uh oh
Bearwoman
I've privately forgave those who did harm to me but I've never forgotten what they did.I wrote them out of my life for good.I'll always love them but I refuse to play their immature drama anymore.
Crunia
Thanks Krinka
You see this thing you wrote: "as just another imperfect human being" I do not get it either. (come back to this later)
You also said: 'releasing the feelings of being hurt'....yeap that´s the only sense I find here ...and I do not have such of those feelings, I have "ideas" data...pieces that need to fit in a puzzle to make sense.

I have had 2 main relatioships. 1st 30 years, 2dn 16. I love them, pretty much, but I do not want any of those guys near to me anymore. I understand why they did what they did to me, that´s how they are...I´m sure it wasn´t their intention to hurt me, both did (and I did to them too, that´s for sure...but again, it was not my intention).
After 30 years loving one person I understood I couldn´t do anything else to help us and I had to choose, I could NEVER have any bad feeling for him and I still think he is kind of wonderful...but I´m also sure, all his marvelous stuff is not "enough" for me lol! I do not see him as an imperfect human being, not at all ....we didn´t belong to each other. We were almost a match but not a real one.
Same story with number 2, but I´m learning "fast"....
Deedee123x
Crunia.

Understanding the act is the minds way of interpreting why they did what they did and understanding their reasons for doing so.
Sometimes there is no reasoning other than they were a shitty person who did a shitty act.

Forgiveness is the hearts work in coming to terms with what happened and in releasing it from your mind

Maybe its the other way around...regardless its one act after the other that needs to happen to come to terms with it and let it go

Thats just my opinion.
Crunia
1one1 HA! a cynic! ...been there. I get your point and ....I think the same, and have questioned myself those feelings regarding motherhood so many times, it´s a mix among an adquired compromise, selfishness and great generosity.
To feel better ourselves. To close a chapter, yeap selfish but valid. We do what we need to protect ourselves....I can buy that.
You do not give a sh*it anymore and I have made resilience my mantra. You are a catch dear! Appreciate your honesty 1one1.
daniela777
Incu. you´re an Angel- thumbs up hug
Crunia
Incu as long as you have me closer, you´ll be safe lol!
Shame I do not have what I consider a very useful skill for this sort of things smitten
(Our friendship is a miracle IncubusBaig laugh)
Crunia
Talking about being selfish Mimi? rolling on the floor laughing super
Crunia
BW....forget is important, the book is big and we need to learn fast (of course some lessons come with blood) , forget the action and keep the message is what I do....I don´t know, I just do what works for me....can be wrong though.
IncubusBaig
Thanks Dan.. hug I'm no angel though.. hence my need to forgive others to cover my own arse.. laugh
IncubusBaig
Crunia.. this is one set of skill that can certainly be developed.. I'm living proof that.. wink

I've always believed in miracles.. hug
Crunia
Now you gave me something to think about Dee....shitty people, I have no much experience with them, besides my three stooges but hey! they are sick, I´ve only been hurt by good people and the system LOL! I need to pond that into consideration and open to understanding "forgiveness" since a different perception than mine? yeap maybe that´s what have happened.....

Thanks for your "opinion" DearDee wink
Crunia
Let me tell you something Incubus....if there is any human being on earth who can make me come back to those files ....is you and your resources hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Impossible big eyes hug
Bearwoman
Cruina you say:BW....forget is important, the book is big and we need to learn fast (of course some lessons come with blood) , forget the action and keep the message is what I do....I don´t know, I just do what works for me....can be wrong though.


@Crinua if it's a complete stranger I'll forget and move on but when it's family it hurts to the bone so to speak and I've never forgotten.Not claiming to be perfect but when one feels and knows that they've done absolutely nothing to deserve being hurt it hurts when your own flesh and blood harms you.
Krinka
@Crunia

When I was younger, I often heard that we SHOULD forgive in order to have the peace of mind, but I didn't find it peaceful at all to force myself into forgiveness. Thinking 'right thoughts' (nobody is perfect, etc.) would only suppress my feelings and they would arise even stronger in some different occasion. So, I realised that the best thing for me to do is to respect my feelings and let them be until they simply naturally lose their strength and disappear.

But, this is not some universal advice... After all, although we are all human beings, more or less similar, we are also different in many areas. smile

Maybe an 'imperfect human being' wasn't the right choice of words. It supposed to mean that - in the end - when my feelings calm down - my brain can accept why somebody did something - due to the certain type of a character, some previous painful experiences, etc. - and remove 'me' from the picture. However, that understanding itself cannot speed up the process of healing. If I try to force it too fast, while I'm still very hurt, it has the opposite effect.

So, 'forgiveness' with me goes like this: emotions, then emotions + thoughts, then thoughts. This process can happen in the matter of minutes or even - years, depending on the depth of the inflected pain. Is this what other people think by 'forgiveness'? I don't know... dunno
Crunia
BW, it´s a shame we are so limited here in CS and we can´t talk openly ....be sure I understand what you mean, takes time, but it´s possible. Send you a virtual but real hug lady hug
Crunia
WoW Krinka....that is good, yeap ...makes sense, you seem to be a very emotional person (an artist) ..I´m the opposite, not sure If I was or I made myself this way (still doubts on that) ...let me share something with you. Give me a couple of minutes...it´s something I was reading last night ....be back!
LoveRanger52
Just let by gones be by gones and have sex..Never sweat the small stuff, life is too short comfort
Crunia
That was certainly deep LoveRanger52, never had come to that by myself laugh thanks Sir, wish you a lot of grrrrrrrrreat sex too wave
Crunia
@Krinka...I think I better send what I want to share with you, via PM. Do you mind?
Grouchyoldfart
I'm told that to forgive is not about the other person but to bring closure to yourself and then to move on. I sort of believe that because I'm sure that the wrongdoer will eventually get run over by a smelly, rotten, and defective garbage truck. He will not be killed as that would not be right but instead will be trapped under it for several hours till they can get the proper machinery to remove it. The broken bones will heal but badly and they will have to get around in a wheelchair at just the right height for large dogs to come up and urinate on.

Yes, this forgiveness business really works!

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